On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 11:04, Jerome Velociter <jerome.xw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Guillaume Lerouge <guilla...@xwiki.com>
> wrote:
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 09:10, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. <
>> ricardo.rodrig...@ebiotic.net> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Vincent Massol wrote:
>>> > On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Hi Vincent, all,
>>> >>
>>> >> See below
>>> >>
>>> >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Vincent Massol <vinc...@massol.net>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >>> On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thibaut Camberlin wrote:
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Velociter <jer...@xwiki.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Actually I've been thinking maybe we could provide a Macros/ space
>>> >>>>> with XE. The home page would be a improved version of the current
>>> >>>>> XWiki.WikiMacros page (adding for example a ClassSheet for macros, a
>>> >>>>> form to create a new macro, some documentation, etc.)
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> WDYT?
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>> This polishing would empower a standard user to use this XWiki
>>> advanced
>>> >>>> feature.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>> I don't quite agree. Standard users shouldn't see this space. it's
>>> something technical and 99% of wiki users don't want/need to see it (and
>>> they won't even understand it). So for me this space would need to be hidden
>>> from simple users (same as for other tech spaces).
>>> >>>
>>> >> Then we should probably hide them from the WYSIWYG tooIbar too, I guess
>>> ;)
>>> >>
>>> >> Seriously, the space could be blacklisted, but it should be discussed,
>>> >> I'm not sure we want to have only admins seing it (personally I see
>>> >> that space as being "documentation on macros existing in the wiki"
>>> >> before being "a place to create new macros" - so not so technical in
>>> >> the end).
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > The reason is simple. Most people come to the wiki as a place where to
>>> find information (not as contributors) and they'll see the list of spaces
>>> listed on the home page mixed with spaces containing real content for that
>>> wiki. All I want is a separation between "business content" and technical
>>> content. I'm fine if we have 2 space lists on the home page, one for each
>>> type of content. But I really don't like to mix the two kind of content.
>>> >
>>>
>>> This categorization would also welcome here. It is been hard to me to
>>> explain to "regular users" what is the difference between business
>>> content and technical content as Vicent called that different nature
>>> documents. Even talking with tech-skilled people, is by no means easy to
>>> explain that one thing are contents produced by the community they are
>>> going to create/support by using a new XWiki installation and the
>>> contains produced/updated by the XWiki community in subsequent releases.
>>>
>>> To tag in any simple way those contents in a way they could be
>>> hidden/shown, could even also helps, IMO, the upgrade and backup
>>> operations.
>>>
>>> Just my two cents.
>>>
>>
>> +1 for a better separation as well. I regularly give demos of XWiki and
>> landing on a first page with all the technical spaces is indeed confusing
>> for users.
>
> I agree. Maybe it's time we thing about typed spaces.
>
> It could start with something light such as a XWiki.SpaceClass with
> only a "pretty name" (quite needed too if you ask me) and a "category"
> list
+1
>
> Jerome.
>
>>
>> Guillaume
>>
>>
>>> >> Maybe in some distant future we should have an intermediary level
>>> >> between "Normal users" and "Admins". BTW do users that chose to be
>>> >> "Advanced Users" in their profile see the blacklisted spaces ?
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > yes.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Maybe
>>> >> the intermediary level could be this one.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I don't think we need one ATM.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>> I'm not sure what the proposal is about exactly.
>>> >>>
>>> >> Well it's not a proposal yet, rather an idea.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Some open questions: Would the macros stay where they are currently
>>> located?
>>> >>>
>>> >> If you ask me some should be moved already (like {{spaces}} and
>>> >> {{tags}}), since they are located in documents that already have
>>> >> another purpose, and thus can not benefit from a potential
>>> >> WikiMacroClassSheet (that for example could display the usage of the
>>> >> macro and its parameters ; thus becoming a sort of self-contained
>>> >> documentation for the held macro)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Well I'm not sure. IMO the dashboard should be moved to a dashboard
>>> application and that spaces macro could be moved to that dashboard
>>> application.
>>> > Recent Activity should be moved to an Activity application too and the
>>> activity macro there too.
>>> >
>>> > Basically I still believe strongly that we need to list all our default
>>> XE pages and assign them an application. I had done that exercise one and
>>> created the jira components in XE asa result. Maybe we should revisit this
>>> and do this mapping now?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>> Shouldn't macros stay with their apps?
>>> >>>
>>> >> Yes they should.
>>> >> Right now we don't even have a rule for where to put applications
>>> >> documents (in their own space ? with a Code suffix ? in the XWiki
>>> >> space ? somewhere else ?)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Yes we need to define that too. We've been quite poor in term of wiki
>>> content organization and as a result I feel that our default wiki content is
>>> a bit of a disorganized mess. We should improve. Want to lead a proposal?
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> I think the (not existing) UI at Macros.WebHome should retrieve and
>>> >> list documents from the entire wiki, not just the Macros space.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > I agree
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Same
>>> >> as the scheduler (I changed that behavior just recently by the way - I
>>> >> wanted my application scheduler jobs in my application space, not in
>>> >> the Scheduler space - see http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XASCH-56)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Yep seen that and I agree.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>> Does it mean a new platform/application in svn?
>>> >>>
>>> >> There is already one : the "wikibridge" I think, with just one
>>> >> document now (the name is not correct though, I agree)
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Agree, it's a good place and it should be renamed or merged with another
>>> app, all depending if we find that there are macros that don't belong to any
>>> specific app.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>> What macros go there? When do we use wiki macros vs java macros (we
>>> haven't really decided on this I think)?
>>> >>>
>>> >> I'm quite sure you will not agree, but I would say generic (i.e. not
>>> >> tied to a particular application) wiki macros could go there. For
>>> >> example {{spaces /}} or even {{activity /}} which goes beyond just the
>>> >> dashboard app.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > See comment above about the dashboard and activity apps.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >>> Will java macros also be listed on that home page (they should IMO)?
>>> >>>
>>> >> Yes they should. Maybe not under the exact same form, but they
>>> >> definitely should be listed and documented here
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Generally speaking I'm rather +1 (I'd like macros to stay in their apps
>>> though).
>>> >>>
>>> >> Cool. I'm +1 too and +1 to have the possibility for apps to bring
>>> >> their own macros.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> > Let's continue this discussion.
>>> >
>>> > Thanks
>>> > -Vincent
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >> Jerome.
>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>> Thanks
>>> >>> -Vincent
>>> >>>
>>> >>> PS: I didn't even know about
>>> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/WikiMacros ;) I wonder why it's
>>> not already using a livetable....
>>> >>>
>>> >>>
>>> >>>> Here is my +1.
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>
>>> >>>>> Jerome
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Arnaud bourree <
>>> arnaud.bour...@gmail.com>
>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>> 2010/11/2 Thomas Mortagne <thomas.morta...@xwiki.com>:
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14, Caleb James DeLisle
>>> >>>>>>> <calebdeli...@lavabit.com> wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> If you're contributing a macro then just log in and fgo to this
>>> page.
>>> >>>>>>>> http://code.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Macros/CreateMacro
>>> >>>>>>>> It will put the macro in the Macros space and automatically add it
>>> to
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>> the index.
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for contributing to code.xwiki.org ;)
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>> I think Thomas was talking about his how macro space, not where to
>>> put
>>> >>>>>>> contributed macro documentation.
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Yes, thanks Thomas,
>>> >>>>>> I decided to used Macros space.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>> Arnaud.
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> Caleb
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:57 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> 2010/11/2 Caleb James DeLisle <calebdeli...@lavabit.com>:
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> In your own wiki I think you want to put macros in a space where
>>> you
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>> will be able to find them
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> easily. The XWiki space is full of important internals and I
>>> wouldn't
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>> recommend putting any macros
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> in there.
>>> >>>>>>>>>> "Macros" sounds like a fine choice.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> I ask question more for macro we contribute to
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> Caleb
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:40 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
>>> >>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Where is the best space to put macros?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I check in some macro from code.xwiki.org, and find that
>>> macros are
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> commonly put in XWiki, Macros or Macro space.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've a preference for Macros as it self explanatory and I think
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>> XWiki
>>> >>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> space more dedicated to XE pages.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
>>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>>> > _______________________________________________
>>> > users mailing list
>>> > users@xwiki.org
>>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>> >
>>> >
>>>
>>> --
>>> Ricardo RodrÃguez
>>> CTO
>>> eBioTIC.
>>> Life Sciences, Data Modeling and Information Management Systems
>>>
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>>> users mailing list
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>>> http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>>>
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