On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 10:47 AM, Guillaume Lerouge <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> On Wed, Nov 3, 2010 at 09:10, [Ricardo Rodriguez] eBioTIC. <
> [email protected]> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> Vincent Massol wrote:
>> > On Nov 2, 2010, at 11:12 PM, Jerome Velociter wrote:
>> >
>> >
>> >> Hi Vincent, all,
>> >>
>> >> See below
>> >>
>> >> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:46 PM, Vincent Massol <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On Nov 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thibaut Camberlin wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 3:05 PM, Jerome Velociter <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Actually I've been thinking maybe we could provide a Macros/ space
>> >>>>> with XE. The home page would be a improved version of the current
>> >>>>> XWiki.WikiMacros page (adding for example a ClassSheet for macros, a
>> >>>>> form to create a new macro, some documentation, etc.)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> WDYT?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>> This polishing would empower a standard user to use this XWiki
>> advanced
>> >>>> feature.
>> >>>>
>> >>> I don't quite agree. Standard users shouldn't see this space. it's
>> something technical and 99% of wiki users don't want/need to see it (and
>> they won't even understand it). So for me this space would need to be hidden
>> from simple users (same as for other tech spaces).
>> >>>
>> >> Then we should probably hide them from the WYSIWYG tooIbar too, I guess
>> ;)
>> >>
>> >> Seriously, the space could be blacklisted, but it should be discussed,
>> >> I'm not sure we want to have only admins seing it (personally I see
>> >> that space as being "documentation on macros existing in the wiki"
>> >> before being "a place to create new macros" - so not so technical in
>> >> the end).
>> >>
>> >
>> > The reason is simple. Most people come to the wiki as a place where to
>> find information (not as contributors) and they'll see the list of spaces
>> listed on the home page mixed with spaces containing real content for that
>> wiki. All I want is a separation between "business content" and technical
>> content. I'm fine if we have 2 space lists on the home page, one for each
>> type of content. But I really don't like to mix the two kind of content.
>> >
>>
>> This categorization would also welcome here. It is been hard to me to
>> explain to "regular users" what is the difference between business
>> content and technical content as Vicent called that different nature
>> documents. Even talking with tech-skilled people, is by no means easy to
>> explain that one thing are contents produced by the community they are
>> going to create/support by using a new XWiki installation and the
>> contains produced/updated by the XWiki community in subsequent releases.
>>
>> To tag in any simple way those contents in a way they could be
>> hidden/shown, could even also helps, IMO, the upgrade and backup
>> operations.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>
> +1 for a better separation as well. I regularly give demos of XWiki and
> landing on a first page with all the technical spaces is indeed confusing
> for users.
I agree. Maybe it's time we thing about typed spaces.
It could start with something light such as a XWiki.SpaceClass with
only a "pretty name" (quite needed too if you ask me) and a "category"
list
Jerome.
>
> Guillaume
>
>
>> >> Maybe in some distant future we should have an intermediary level
>> >> between "Normal users" and "Admins". BTW do users that chose to be
>> >> "Advanced Users" in their profile see the blacklisted spaces ?
>> >>
>> >
>> > yes.
>> >
>> >
>> >> Maybe
>> >> the intermediary level could be this one.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I don't think we need one ATM.
>> >
>> >
>> >>> I'm not sure what the proposal is about exactly.
>> >>>
>> >> Well it's not a proposal yet, rather an idea.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Some open questions: Would the macros stay where they are currently
>> located?
>> >>>
>> >> If you ask me some should be moved already (like {{spaces}} and
>> >> {{tags}}), since they are located in documents that already have
>> >> another purpose, and thus can not benefit from a potential
>> >> WikiMacroClassSheet (that for example could display the usage of the
>> >> macro and its parameters ; thus becoming a sort of self-contained
>> >> documentation for the held macro)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Well I'm not sure. IMO the dashboard should be moved to a dashboard
>> application and that spaces macro could be moved to that dashboard
>> application.
>> > Recent Activity should be moved to an Activity application too and the
>> activity macro there too.
>> >
>> > Basically I still believe strongly that we need to list all our default
>> XE pages and assign them an application. I had done that exercise one and
>> created the jira components in XE asa result. Maybe we should revisit this
>> and do this mapping now?
>> >
>> >
>> >>> Shouldn't macros stay with their apps?
>> >>>
>> >> Yes they should.
>> >> Right now we don't even have a rule for where to put applications
>> >> documents (in their own space ? with a Code suffix ? in the XWiki
>> >> space ? somewhere else ?)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yes we need to define that too. We've been quite poor in term of wiki
>> content organization and as a result I feel that our default wiki content is
>> a bit of a disorganized mess. We should improve. Want to lead a proposal?
>> >
>> >
>> >> I think the (not existing) UI at Macros.WebHome should retrieve and
>> >> list documents from the entire wiki, not just the Macros space.
>> >>
>> >
>> > I agree
>> >
>> >
>> >> Same
>> >> as the scheduler (I changed that behavior just recently by the way - I
>> >> wanted my application scheduler jobs in my application space, not in
>> >> the Scheduler space - see http://jira.xwiki.org/jira/browse/XASCH-56)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Yep seen that and I agree.
>> >
>> >
>> >>> Does it mean a new platform/application in svn?
>> >>>
>> >> There is already one : the "wikibridge" I think, with just one
>> >> document now (the name is not correct though, I agree)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Agree, it's a good place and it should be renamed or merged with another
>> app, all depending if we find that there are macros that don't belong to any
>> specific app.
>> >
>> >
>> >>> What macros go there? When do we use wiki macros vs java macros (we
>> haven't really decided on this I think)?
>> >>>
>> >> I'm quite sure you will not agree, but I would say generic (i.e. not
>> >> tied to a particular application) wiki macros could go there. For
>> >> example {{spaces /}} or even {{activity /}} which goes beyond just the
>> >> dashboard app.
>> >>
>> >
>> > See comment above about the dashboard and activity apps.
>> >
>> >
>> >>> Will java macros also be listed on that home page (they should IMO)?
>> >>>
>> >> Yes they should. Maybe not under the exact same form, but they
>> >> definitely should be listed and documented here
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Generally speaking I'm rather +1 (I'd like macros to stay in their apps
>> though).
>> >>>
>> >> Cool. I'm +1 too and +1 to have the possibility for apps to bring
>> >> their own macros.
>> >>
>> >
>> > Let's continue this discussion.
>> >
>> > Thanks
>> > -Vincent
>> >
>> >
>> >> Jerome.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> Thanks
>> >>> -Vincent
>> >>>
>> >>> PS: I didn't even know about
>> http://localhost:8080/xwiki/bin/view/XWiki/WikiMacros ;) I wonder why it's
>> not already using a livetable....
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> Here is my +1.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> Jerome
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 2:03 PM, Arnaud bourree <
>> [email protected]>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>> 2010/11/2 Thomas Mortagne <[email protected]>:
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> On Tue, Nov 2, 2010 at 10:14, Caleb James DeLisle
>> >>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> If you're contributing a macro then just log in and fgo to this
>> page.
>> >>>>>>>> http://code.xwiki.org/xwiki/bin/view/Macros/CreateMacro
>> >>>>>>>> It will put the macro in the Macros space and automatically add it
>> to
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> the index.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Thanks for contributing to code.xwiki.org ;)
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>> I think Thomas was talking about his how macro space, not where to
>> put
>> >>>>>>> contributed macro documentation.
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Yes, thanks Thomas,
>> >>>>>> I decided to used Macros space.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>> Arnaud.
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> Caleb
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:57 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> 2010/11/2 Caleb James DeLisle <[email protected]>:
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> In your own wiki I think you want to put macros in a space where
>> you
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> will be able to find them
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> easily. The XWiki space is full of important internals and I
>> wouldn't
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> recommend putting any macros
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> in there.
>> >>>>>>>>>> "Macros" sounds like a fine choice.
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> I ask question more for macro we contribute to
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> Caleb
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>> On 11/02/2010 04:40 AM, Arnaud bourree wrote:
>> >>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hello,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Where is the best space to put macros?
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I check in some macro from code.xwiki.org, and find that
>> macros are
>> >>>>>>>>>>> commonly put in XWiki, Macros or Macro space.
>> >>>>>>>>>>> I've a preference for Macros as it self explanatory and I think
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>> XWiki
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> space more dedicated to XE pages.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> What do you think?
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Regards,
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> >>>>>>>>>>> Arnaud.
>> >>>>>>>>>>>
>> > _______________________________________________
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>> > http://lists.xwiki.org/mailman/listinfo/users
>> >
>> >
>>
>> --
>> Ricardo RodrÃguez
>> CTO
>> eBioTIC.
>> Life Sciences, Data Modeling and Information Management Systems
>>
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