A very enjoyable debate continues.....
I see, so now you are for change to metric?
As I said, there are areas that make sense in metric. My opinion is always
based upon the merit and evolutionary ability of each system. Where
imperial is preferred, chosen or more convenient I don't believe the state
is there to tell us we are wrong. However, if choice is available I support
a laissez faire attitude unless health, safety or freedoms are at risk.
Believe me - I *don't* cringe when I'm choosing a 1.8 or 2 litre Caterham.
Similarly I won't translate it to cu in just to "feel all imperial".
I am not anti-metric. But I am not anti-imperial either.
If that means what I think it means then we're back to square one.
This is what disturbs me. That people can be "against" or "anti" the word
inch, mile etc. So much so as to call it names ("FFU"), deny it exists,
call for its "destruction" or "irradication", make out that it harms
children or simply claim that a social underclass uses it. That sentiment
causes much harm to proper metric advocates who'd like to see metric
prompoted in a more positive way.
You'll be glad to here that ex-USMA list-serv user "euric" (amongst other
names) has now been banned from the BWMA forums. Despite laughing at his
claims I always thought that he was the best asset to any pro-imperial group
or organisation!
I could easily fire that one back citing freedom of choice, but then
you'll respond with "the problem with choice is...."
Alright then. The problem with choice is ...
Not enough dots, mate! :-D
It takes more than that. What we need now is public education.
Forgive me for asking (for alas I am too young) wasn't this 'public
education' tried in the 70's?
A few facts then. Back in 1970 (or there abouts) the government published a
white paper with an estimate of �2 million for the change to road signs.
Naturally you have to scale that up to todays money and possibly make
allowance for any increase on the number new roads etc. But for a present
day figure of �1 billion it would have to muliplied 500 times. Don't you
think that's a bit excessive?
I'll chuck my 2 pennies worth on that - after all we are both
hypotheticalizing (there's a word that could be in a Bush speech!).
1) Wasn't the inflation of the 70's "super inflation"? How much was a brand
new mid-range car in 1970 compared to today? Worse, replace "car" for
"house".
2) Since the 70's I expect that UK road miles have increased exponentially
2b) Car ownership today is incomparible with 1970 (many teenager prob don't
know what "public transport" actually is!!
3) There must be signs that exist today that had no meaning in 1970
As another piece of evidence look at the published cost of the Irish
project - 9 million euros or �6 million. Again it has to be scaled up but
is it likely to be as much as 170 times?
There are over 10 times as many people in the UK as Ireland
However - the road network in Ireland, out side major cities like Dublin) is
mainly horse laden rural lanes.
Don't get me wrong - that's a nice thing - but nothing like our network of
roads, culminating in the busiest road IN THE ROAD, the bloody M25 !
Would it need replacing though. Electronic signs can be reprogrammed.
Sad as it sound, I've been caught in enough queues on "that road" to notice
that the matrix layout can only accomodate 2 figures.
This is not an exhaustive list or in any particular order:
I've added "IMHO" to yours, if you don't mind (after all, it is a debate!)
(i) Metric educated drivers can apply their learning to the real world
I am metric-educated. Like my peer group. We have no problem in retaining
the UK's safety figures.
(ii) 1 km = 1000 m is very simple
I've never been in the postion of needing to know how many yards there are
in a mile, or feet in a yard, whilst driving a car.
I have noticed, however, that at 60 mph I can gauge the mile and half-mile
markers in time terms (1 mile to the junction = 1 minute, etc)
I also like the 800, 600, 400, 200 yd countdown signs (not the /// // /
ones) that lead me to, say, a traffic light although I concede that metres
would have the same effect.
(iii) Road atlases can use the same system as OS maps as used for other
activities. The whole business of map reading is easier.
What's wrong with "an inch per mile".
Besides - I use GPS - which (on my settings) is imperial (for UK roads).
The woman tells me to "turn right after 200 yds", having put a post code in.
It's a bit de-educating - going from map to computer - but that's all around
us these days (Sky+, GUI style operating systems etc).
(iv) Can use L/100 km for fuel consumption in line with the measures used
at the petrol pump
We have no issue with MPG. Besides, "MPG" is almost like a "marks out of
ten" figure for a car:- 15 bad, 30, ok, 40 good, 80 excellent etc.
Once again - on car computers tell me all i need to know regarding MPG,
miles or gal in the tank.
(v) Drivers travelling to the continent of Europe are fully adapted
I've never heard of anyone who found it difficult to adapt - either way (ie
inc EUR -> UK)
I could be snobbish and say that, being one of the wealthiest euro-nations,
they should adapt to us! But I won't!
(vi) Drivers coming into Britian are safer for the same reason
Oops! Should have read ahead! See last answer.
(vii) Speed limits at intervals of 10 km/h offer more alternatives than
intervals of 10 mph
I see no benefit over the current 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, 70 system.
Except there should be a 90 for roads!
But again - look at our safety figures!
Individually they may not seem much but taken together it represents a
worthwhile improvement to road transport in the UK.
I would counter all arguments with one.
Would it be worth just one life being ended as a result of an accident
related to changing signs, just to say "there, all the signs are metric like
they should be".
Ultra-hypothetical, but definitely a risk.
Please don't cite low-car population arguments to counter that - esp whe nwe
don't know if an accident has indeed been caused in such away.
There's a bit more to it than getting a fuzzy feeling seeing m and km on
signs. The emotional things I leave to those idiots going around nicking
and vandalising signs coz they get upset when they see signs saying how
many metres it is to the nearest toilet.
I wouldn't know who you're talking about there ;-)
Irelands statistics aren't very good.
No they wouldn't be would they.
I meant there road safety generally, before and after. It's a different
(ahem) 'metric' to attain.
Do they? I thought you told me that parliament don't support it?
I said state and super-state. The clue is in the statement.
Anyway which side are the state on when they refuse to allow metres on road
signs?
I believe that on road signs, having dual signage is a safety issue for
something that currently has an impeccable safety record.
If it ain't broke - don't fix it...
If it's very unbroke, don't harmonize it 'down'
