I have to say that James's post hit the nail on the head for me.
Briefly - What my parents voted for in the early 70's was a common market.
No equivalent of the situation of going from that to a political, social and
economic union can be easily compared to a US situation.
An intersting point - "Metric" scored high in the opinion polls of the early
70's and has steadily gone down since. There *must* be a link to a
dissatisfaction with the EU "super state".
I love Europe - and I hate what the EU is doing to it.
From: "Martin Vlietstra" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "U.S. Metric Association" <[email protected]>
Subject: [USMA:37745] Re: [off-topic] Re: UK metric debate in the House of
Lords
Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2007 20:31:25 -0000
UK metric debate in the House of LordsA good deal of the problem in the UK
is that we are an island, that going to another country takes more effort
than for most of our EU neighbours and that certain politicians are
whipping up public opinion for the sake of cheap publicity.
The truth about representation is:
The EU is run by the EU Commission. The US equivalent is the President &
Executive. The UK equivalent is the Prime Minister and Cabinet.
The EU Commission is composed of 25 members, each one nominated by a member
state (usually an ex-minister). The democracy element is probably on a par
with the US and the UK - the US President is elected indirectly by the
people and the US Executive is nominated by the President, while in the UK
the Prime Minister is the leader of the party that wins the election and
the Cabinet are nominated by the Prime Minister from elected Members of
Parliament. (He usually only nominates MP's from his own party).
The "Upper House" of the EU is the Council of Ministers. It is roughly
equivalent to the Senate in the US and the House of Lords in the UK. The
Council of Ministers is composed of the ministers of state of the various
member states - ie all the Finance ministers will discuss finance, all the
transport ministers will discuss transport and so on. It is very closely
modelled on the German Upper House. It is probably less democratic than
the US Senate, but certainly much more democratic than the House of Lords.
The "Lower House" of the EU is the EU Parliament. Its equivalent is
Congress in the US and the House of Commons in the UK. As in both the US
and the UK, its members are directly elected.
Finally, all EU directives need to have the consent of all three bodies.
It is just a pity that so few people understand how the EU works. I believe
that there is a direct correlation about the number of half-truths that are
put about in newspapers concerning the EU and the amount of clothing that
the pin-up girls in the same newspapers wear - (the greater the number of
half-truths, the less the pin-up girls wear).
----- Original Message -----
From: James Jason Wentworth
To: U.S. Metric Association
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 6:12 PM
Subject: [USMA:37744] Re: UK metric debate in the House of Lords
Hello Pat,
All of your points are true and well-taken. But these anti-metric
reactions in the UK House of Lords are the visible manifestation of
something that goes far beyond metrication. Many people throughout the EU,
particularly in Western European nations, are becoming increasingly
dissatisfied with it. This dissatisfaction stems from the fact that their
lives are now being regulated by bureaucrats in Brussels whom they cannot
directly vote for or against. Also, on issues such as capital punishment,
the EU government is out of step with national majorities and pluralities
of its people (this was revealed by polling at the time of Saddam Hussein's
execution).
Not only are many British people angry that non-British politicians are
telling them what units to use, but I know Germans who are angry that so
many Italians have moved into their country due to the new "borderless" EU
regulations and Dutch farmers who are angry because they had to destroy
many of their not-proven-to-be-ill cattle (during the foot-and-mouth
disease epidemic) due to EU agricultural regulations.
As frustrated as I sometimes become with my senators, congressman (we
only have one for all of Alaska), and president, I am secure in the
knowledge that I can directly vote for or against them. Because they know
that too, they *do* listen to me and to my fellow citizens. The citizens
of the EU member nations have no such direct control over the EU
government, and as a consequence the EU ministers can merrily craft their
regulations "in a vacuum," as I've heard British friends of mine complain.
It's ironic that the British are now getting a taste of something not
terribly dissimilar to that which prompted our revolution in 1776. Instead
of taxation without representation, it's regulation without representation.
The psychological effect of this pressure from a distant leadership that
does not understand the needs of its people may have the same results; Just
as we changed to a decimal currency system and even reformed English
spelling to express our defiance toward Britain, if the EU forces the
metric issue the British may dig in their heels and cling to Imperial
measures (and perhaps even expand their use) to express their defiance
toward the EU.
-- Jason
----- Original Message -----
From: Pat Naughtin
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, January 15, 2007 2:23 AM
Subject: [USMA:37742] UK metric debate in the House of Lords
Dear All,
You might be interested in this debate entitled 'EU: Non-metric Terms'
held in the UK House of Lords on Monday 2006-11-27.
http://www.theyworkforyou.com/lords/?id=2006-11-27a.541.0&s=speaker%3A13076
The debate seems to me to be liberally larded with misinformation and
thoughtless nationalist posturing with the main arguments being based on
some vague idea of tradition and a strong personal distaste for foreign
ideas.
My first reaction was to comment on all of the mistruths and errors
contained within the thoughts of the various participants, but then I
realised that they all had one thing in common â they seemed to have no
idea how much their non-decision is costing their nation.
All parties to this debate seem to be quite unaware of the costs of
non-metrication in the UK.
Here are some questions that I think might usefully be asked in the
House of Lords in their next metric debate:
â How many UK businesses have lost European orders or contracts
because they could not do the job in metric?
â How many UK businesses have not even been approached for
quotations or estimates because European businesses automatically assume
that businesses in the UK cannot do metric work?
â How much time and paper is wasted each day in UK offices as people
try to layout page designs in inches and fractions of inches when they are
using metric paper sizes? My estimate is about 10 % of office paper is
wasted every day because of measurement issues. See the article, 'Page
borders â Inches or millimetres' at
http://www.metricationmatters.com/articles
â How many UK businesses have had to pay a premium for metric parts
because they only bought enough for a specific job?
â How many have made costly mistakes in converting a metric job to
old pre-metric measures?
â How many people have had to be terminated because they could not
work in metric units? How much does it cost to find and employ their
replacements?
â How much are the people of the UK prepared to pay to be different
to everywhere else in Europe?
â How much does it cost to have someone buying one fastener when
they need the other and having to make a second trip to the store to
rectify the problem?
â How much does it cost to retrain UK school leavers in old measures
when they have been taught the metric system at school every year since
1965?
â How many UK citizens cannot find employment in other countries
because it is assumed that they won't be able to use metric units?
â How much extra does it cost UK industry for duplicating products
in both metric and old pre-metric measures?
â How much extra does it cost UK industry for keeping both the
metric and the old pre-metric inventories separate?
â How much extra does it cost UK industry to have stores that have
to carry both metric and old pre-metric measures?
â How much extra production costs are involved with making products
like fasteners in both metric and old pre-metric measures?
â How much has not-going metric really cost the UK? My estimate is
about 10 % of Gross Domestic Product (GDP) or about £114 billion per year
($223 billion USD). See: the article 'costs of non-metrication' at
http://www.metricationmatters.com/articles for details of this estimate in
a USA context.
â How much is it going to cost the UK for not being metric between
now and when the politicians finally accept that the complete adoption of
the metric system in the UK is not only the most sensible decision that the
House of Lords could support but also that it is inevitable anyway?
Cheers,
Pat Naughtin
PO Box 305, Belmont, 3216
Geelong, Australia
Phone 61 3 5241 2008
Pat Naughtin is the editor of the free online monthly newsletter,
'Metrication matters'.
You can subscribe at http://www.metricationmatters.com/newsletter
Pat is also recognised as a Lifetime Certified Advanced Metrication
Specialist (LCAMS) with the United States Metric Association. He is also
editor of the 'Numbers and measurement' section of the Australian
Government Publishing Service 'Style manual â for writers, editors and
printers'. He is a Member of the National Speakers Association of Australia
and the International Federation for Professional Speakers. See:
http://www.metricationmatters.com
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