Hello Michael, Once again, what would you expect that to gain us that our existing solution can't provide?
Regards, Michael On 29/04/13 22:11, Michael Slavitch wrote: > Not there yet. > > I'm glad that there's a fork. Has there been any thought of revisiting the > model towards something more akin to Gallium3D? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michael Thayer <[email protected]> > Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 22:03:33 > To: Michael Slavitch<[email protected]> > Cc: <[email protected]> > Subject: Re: [vbox-dev] Chromium WebGL vs Angle WebGL > > Hello Michael, > > VirtualBox is not using upstream Chromium - we have forked it and > maintaining our version ourselves. There is certainly room for > improvement there, and you are welcome to contribute, but it is being > actively worked upon on our side. I still haven't find anything on > ANGLE through google to indicate that it is not Windows-only (except > for: "In addition to OpenGL ES 2.0 and EGL 1.4 libraries, ANGLE also > provides a GLSL ES to GLSL translator [...] The translator code is fully > independent of the rest of ANGLE code and resides in $BASE/src/compiler. > Since the translator is supposed to be a cross-platform utility, it uses > a different build system GYP, which generates native project files for > all supported platforms."[1] Do you have a pointer to something relevant? > > Regards, > > Michael > > [1] http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/wiki/DevSetup > > On 29/04/13 21:36, Michael Slavitch wrote: >> The VirtualBox 3D driver is based on the Chromium OpenGL proxy tool. >> As far as I know Chromium does not support Mac OS X as a platform. >> There hasn't been an official release since 2006. From what I have >> seen on MacOS hosts 3D rendering is done by the host using a mix of >> software and hardware calls. The performance of 3D on Windows guests >> running on MacOS and Linux hosts is somewhat lacking. >> >> Angle is not Windows only, it a cross-platform library that wraps >> local implementations of OpenGL (MacOS, Linux) or DirectX (9 and 10) >> (Windows) with WebGL to access hardware-accelerated libraries using a >> single consistent API. 3D tasks such as shading are done in hardware, >> not software, using common calls. It is used on Mac OS X, Linux, and >> in mobile platforms, as well as in Windows. The major use has been in >> browsers but that is only a circumstance of the energy going towards >> web applications. >> >> Now, I might be wrong but I would be very leery of depending on API's >> from a project that hasn't seen a revision in seven years, and looks >> to be orphaned, when there is a library that allows VirtualBox to >> create host environments that can provide a consistent >> hardware-accelerated graphics API to guest, especially one that is >> still in active development. There seems to be little thought put in >> to 3D support. This has the potential of changing that. >> >> Regards >> >> Michael >> >> >> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Michael Thayer >> <[email protected]> wrote: >>> Hello Michael, >>> >>> Perhaps I am missing something here, but first I have trouble seeing what >>> ANGLE should provide which we are currently lacking (in fact I am not quite >>> sure what you feel is wrong with our current solution at all which cannot be >>> fixed in place), and secondly it looks from its web page like a Windows-only >>> library to run OpenGL ES on top of DirectX rather than a cross-platform one >>> to translate DirectX into WebGL. I am not even quite clear either why you >>> think we need such a library - are you considering Windows guests being >>> displayed in a host web browser? And if so, do you think that ANGLE would >>> be suitable for being embedded into a guest display driver? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> On 29/04/13 19:09, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>>> >>>> In other words, it's an open-source library that can do for VirtualBox >>>> what Mesa/Gallium3D does for VMWare: Present a consistent OpenGL 3D >>>> library no matter the underlying platform. It has a BSD license. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Michael Slavitch <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> The latter is what's used in Oracle VirtualBox to provide WebGL >>>>> services to pass graphics commands to the host. >>>>> >>>>> That's what Angle provides, as a library, for applications that can >>>>> use it, and for the same reason, as it allows the same library to >>>>> offer near-native graphics support cross-platform, such that DirectX >>>>> API commands can be translated into WebGL calls supported on myriad >>>>> platforms. They support translation of DirectX 9 and DirectX 10. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Michael Slavitch <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> The latter is what's used in Oracle VirtualBox to provide WebGL >>>>>> services, correct? That's what Angle provides, as a library, for >>>>>> applications that can use it. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Michael Thayer >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hello Michael, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I think you have the wrong Chromium there[1][2]. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>> >>>>>>> [1] http://www.chromium.org/ >>>>>>> [2] http://chromium.sourceforge.net/ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On 29/04/13 17:59, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Has anyone investigated replacing the Chromium WebGL used in >>>>>>>> Virtualbox with the capabilities offered by Angle? The result would >>>>>>>> give Windows guests on Linux/MacOS hosts access to >>>>>>>> hardware-accelerated WebGL libraries on the underlying hosts, and >>>>>>>> achieve parity with host implementations when using Direct3D 10 or >>>>>>>> above. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Deets here: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> https://code.google.com/p/angleproject/ >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ANGLE is a conformant implementation of the OpenGL ES 2.0 >>>>>>>> specification that is hardware‐accelerated via Direct3D. ANGLE >>>>>>>> v1.0.772 was certified compliant by passing the ES 2.0.3 conformance >>>>>>>> tests in October 2011. ANGLE also provides an implementation of the >>>>>>>> EGL 1.4 specification. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ANGLE is used as the default WebGL backend for both Google Chrome and >>>>>>>> Mozilla Firefox on Windows platforms. Chrome uses ANGLE for all >>>>>>>> graphics rendering on Windows, including the accelerated Canvas2D >>>>>>>> implementation and the Native Client sandbox environment. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Portions of the ANGLE shader compiler are used as a shader validator >>>>>>>> and translator by WebGL implementations across multiple platforms. It >>>>>>>> is used on Mac OS X, Linux, and in mobile variants of the browsers. >>>>>>>> Having one shader validator helps to ensure that a consistent set of >>>>>>>> GLSL ES shaders are accepted across browsers and platforms. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The shader translator can be used to translate shaders to other >>>>>>>> shading languages, and to optionally apply shader modifications to >>>>>>>> work around bugs or quirks in the native graphics drivers. The >>>>>>>> translator targets Desktop GLSL, Direct3D HLSL, and even ESSL for >>>>>>>> native GLES2 platforms. >>>>>>>> <<< >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> vbox-dev mailing list >>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>> https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer >>>>>>> Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering >>>>>>> 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher >>>> >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> vbox-dev mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer >>> Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering >>> 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] >>> >>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz >>> >>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher > > -- ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher _______________________________________________ vbox-dev mailing list [email protected] https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev
