Not sure what you mean by the second part, but regarding the first it seems to me that we can also achieve that by working on (our in-tree version of) the code, which is exactly what we are doing. It would be faster if we had more developers available for the task, but I have doubts as to whether tying up what development time we have in a major re-write of the code is really going to improve that.
Regards, Michael On 29/04/13 22:18, Michael Slavitch wrote: > Longer term? More rendering in hardware less in software, full > productization / support for 3D guest additions, instead of treating > it like a red-headed stepchild. > > On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 4:14 PM, Michael Thayer > <[email protected]> wrote: >> Hello Michael, >> >> Once again, what would you expect that to gain us that our existing solution >> can't provide? >> >> Regards, >> >> Michael >> >> >> On 29/04/13 22:11, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>> >>> Not there yet. >>> >>> I'm glad that there's a fork. Has there been any thought of revisiting the >>> model towards something more akin to Gallium3D? >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Michael Thayer <[email protected]> >>> Date: Mon, 29 Apr 2013 22:03:33 >>> To: Michael Slavitch<[email protected]> >>> Cc: <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: [vbox-dev] Chromium WebGL vs Angle WebGL >>> >>> Hello Michael, >>> >>> VirtualBox is not using upstream Chromium - we have forked it and >>> maintaining our version ourselves. There is certainly room for >>> improvement there, and you are welcome to contribute, but it is being >>> actively worked upon on our side. I still haven't find anything on >>> ANGLE through google to indicate that it is not Windows-only (except >>> for: "In addition to OpenGL ES 2.0 and EGL 1.4 libraries, ANGLE also >>> provides a GLSL ES to GLSL translator [...] The translator code is fully >>> independent of the rest of ANGLE code and resides in $BASE/src/compiler. >>> Since the translator is supposed to be a cross-platform utility, it uses >>> a different build system GYP, which generates native project files for >>> all supported platforms."[1] Do you have a pointer to something relevant? >>> >>> Regards, >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> [1] http://code.google.com/p/angleproject/wiki/DevSetup >>> >>> On 29/04/13 21:36, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>>> >>>> The VirtualBox 3D driver is based on the Chromium OpenGL proxy tool. >>>> As far as I know Chromium does not support Mac OS X as a platform. >>>> There hasn't been an official release since 2006. From what I have >>>> seen on MacOS hosts 3D rendering is done by the host using a mix of >>>> software and hardware calls. The performance of 3D on Windows guests >>>> running on MacOS and Linux hosts is somewhat lacking. >>>> >>>> Angle is not Windows only, it a cross-platform library that wraps >>>> local implementations of OpenGL (MacOS, Linux) or DirectX (9 and 10) >>>> (Windows) with WebGL to access hardware-accelerated libraries using a >>>> single consistent API. 3D tasks such as shading are done in hardware, >>>> not software, using common calls. It is used on Mac OS X, Linux, and >>>> in mobile platforms, as well as in Windows. The major use has been in >>>> browsers but that is only a circumstance of the energy going towards >>>> web applications. >>>> >>>> Now, I might be wrong but I would be very leery of depending on API's >>>> from a project that hasn't seen a revision in seven years, and looks >>>> to be orphaned, when there is a library that allows VirtualBox to >>>> create host environments that can provide a consistent >>>> hardware-accelerated graphics API to guest, especially one that is >>>> still in active development. There seems to be little thought put in >>>> to 3D support. This has the potential of changing that. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> Michael >>>> >>>> >>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 2:49 PM, Michael Thayer >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Hello Michael, >>>>> >>>>> Perhaps I am missing something here, but first I have trouble seeing >>>>> what >>>>> ANGLE should provide which we are currently lacking (in fact I am not >>>>> quite >>>>> sure what you feel is wrong with our current solution at all which >>>>> cannot be >>>>> fixed in place), and secondly it looks from its web page like a >>>>> Windows-only >>>>> library to run OpenGL ES on top of DirectX rather than a cross-platform >>>>> one >>>>> to translate DirectX into WebGL. I am not even quite clear either why >>>>> you >>>>> think we need such a library - are you considering Windows guests being >>>>> displayed in a host web browser? And if so, do you think that ANGLE >>>>> would >>>>> be suitable for being embedded into a guest display driver? >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 29/04/13 19:09, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> In other words, it's an open-source library that can do for VirtualBox >>>>>> what Mesa/Gallium3D does for VMWare: Present a consistent OpenGL 3D >>>>>> library no matter the underlying platform. It has a BSD license. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:49 PM, Michael Slavitch <[email protected]> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The latter is what's used in Oracle VirtualBox to provide WebGL >>>>>>> services to pass graphics commands to the host. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> That's what Angle provides, as a library, for applications that can >>>>>>> use it, and for the same reason, as it allows the same library to >>>>>>> offer near-native graphics support cross-platform, such that DirectX >>>>>>> API commands can be translated into WebGL calls supported on myriad >>>>>>> platforms. They support translation of DirectX 9 and DirectX 10. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:42 PM, Michael Slavitch >>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The latter is what's used in Oracle VirtualBox to provide WebGL >>>>>>>> services, correct? That's what Angle provides, as a library, for >>>>>>>> applications that can use it. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Mon, Apr 29, 2013 at 12:13 PM, Michael Thayer >>>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Michael, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think you have the wrong Chromium there[1][2]. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> [1] http://www.chromium.org/ >>>>>>>>> [2] http://chromium.sourceforge.net/ >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 29/04/13 17:59, Michael Slavitch wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Has anyone investigated replacing the Chromium WebGL used in >>>>>>>>>> Virtualbox with the capabilities offered by Angle? The result >>>>>>>>>> would >>>>>>>>>> give Windows guests on Linux/MacOS hosts access to >>>>>>>>>> hardware-accelerated WebGL libraries on the underlying hosts, and >>>>>>>>>> achieve parity with host implementations when using Direct3D 10 or >>>>>>>>>> above. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Deets here: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> https://code.google.com/p/angleproject/ >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ANGLE is a conformant implementation of the OpenGL ES 2.0 >>>>>>>>>> specification that is hardware‐accelerated via Direct3D. ANGLE >>>>>>>>>> v1.0.772 was certified compliant by passing the ES 2.0.3 >>>>>>>>>> conformance >>>>>>>>>> tests in October 2011. ANGLE also provides an implementation of the >>>>>>>>>> EGL 1.4 specification. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> ANGLE is used as the default WebGL backend for both Google Chrome >>>>>>>>>> and >>>>>>>>>> Mozilla Firefox on Windows platforms. Chrome uses ANGLE for all >>>>>>>>>> graphics rendering on Windows, including the accelerated Canvas2D >>>>>>>>>> implementation and the Native Client sandbox environment. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Portions of the ANGLE shader compiler are used as a shader >>>>>>>>>> validator >>>>>>>>>> and translator by WebGL implementations across multiple platforms. >>>>>>>>>> It >>>>>>>>>> is used on Mac OS X, Linux, and in mobile variants of the browsers. >>>>>>>>>> Having one shader validator helps to ensure that a consistent set >>>>>>>>>> of >>>>>>>>>> GLSL ES shaders are accepted across browsers and platforms. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The shader translator can be used to translate shaders to other >>>>>>>>>> shading languages, and to optionally apply shader modifications to >>>>>>>>>> work around bugs or quirks in the native graphics drivers. The >>>>>>>>>> translator targets Desktop GLSL, Direct3D HLSL, and even ESSL for >>>>>>>>>> native GLES2 platforms. >>>>>>>>>> <<< >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>> vbox-dev mailing list >>>>>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>>>>> https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer >>>>>>>>> Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering >>>>>>>>> 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>>>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>>>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>>>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>>>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> vbox-dev mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer >>>>> Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering >>>>> 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] >>>>> >>>>> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >>>>> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >>>>> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz >>>>> >>>>> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >>>>> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >>>>> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >>>>> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> -- >> ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer >> Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering >> 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] >> >> Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München >> Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 >> Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz >> >> Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. >> Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande >> Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 >> Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher -- ORACLE Deutschland B.V. & Co. KG Michael Thayer Werkstrasse 24 VirtualBox engineering 71384 Weinstadt, Germany mailto:[email protected] Hauptverwaltung: Riesstr. 25, D-80992 München Registergericht: Amtsgericht München, HRA 95603 Geschäftsführer: Jürgen Kunz Komplementärin: ORACLE Deutschland Verwaltung B.V. Hertogswetering 163/167, 3543 AS Utrecht, Niederlande Handelsregister der Handelskammer Midden-Niederlande, Nr. 30143697 Geschäftsführer: Alexander van der Ven, Astrid Kepper, Val Maher _______________________________________________ vbox-dev mailing list [email protected] https://www.virtualbox.org/mailman/listinfo/vbox-dev
