On 08/07/2012 12:20 AM, Kurt Bigler wrote:
Thanks, and to Matt also.

On 8/3/12 11:18 AM, "Eric Shubert" <e...@shubes.net> wrote:

* I think Windows sucks bad, and I like UNIX only without a UI.  I'm very
good in vi.  But for running my server this time I'd like to try a UI for a
for vanilla file management and such, and I don't think I want it to be
either Gnome or KDE, because I've never liked them enough to try to learn
them.  I won't mention X-Windows.  Apple Remote Desktop has some problems
but they seem not bad for a server without its own display, and I can always
use a different remote desktop if needed.

If you're only looking for file management in a UI, I'd try a text based
one such as Vifm or Midnight Commander, as opposed to a GUI.

What I want from file management is essentially "GUI".  I can tolerate text
interfaces in the terminal, but it is harder to swallow as a cheap gui
imitation.  It is still a gui in essence even if it is text-based, if it
provides a view of the filesystem that does not require typing a command to
get a directory listing.

So I just prefer a GUI, and among GUI's I don't really even like to look at
Windows Explorer, much less Midnight Commander.  I can adjust to anything,
and maybe it is worth that adjustment if a GUI is just too expensive in
terms of connection bandwidth, but it is not the experiment I had in mind to
try next.

Basically, the whole point is to use the Mac Finder, which in spite of being
broken to hell by Apple, is still better than any Windows or unix file
management GUI I have seen so far.  (It worked really well in OS 9 and
actually Apple has never fixed it since, so it is crippled in 10 or so ways
that are regularly annoying.)

Sometimes I am "visual" and in a visual environment I basically relax.
Using a terminal I am not relaxed, even if I am somewhat efficient.

In that case, you could install netatalk on your virtual email server, and connect to the host with finder using native methods. You should set up a host only (virtual) nic/subnet on the mail server for this access (network file sharing via netatalk), but that wouldn't be a problem.

and also really don't want multiple IP's, and suspect sharing a
single IP with host and mail VM would be problematic.

There's no problem with this. Virtualization software can provide NAT
for the VM's nic(s).

Ok, I had Parallels NAT break host functionality on the LAN once, which made
me nervous.  (I could not print over the LAND as long as Parallels NAT was
enabled on that Mac.)  I have also never put a real server behind a NAT
before, so wasn't sure about it.

Parallels had some problems in the early going. I seem to remember hearing that they've fixed things up, but I'd verify that before using it. I've had no problems with Fusion.

It should be
no surprise that the server industry (if there is such a thing) has made
big moves toward virtualization for nearly a decade now.

Yes.  I would love it if I could just download a working qmail+vpopmail VM
appliance.  Maybe you could work on that?  :)

There is one available. :)
http://techyguru.com/ It's in standard OVF format.
Should work on Fusion. Not sure about Parallels.

But if the whole idea doesn't work maybe I will just install some linux on
my Mac mini.  But in that case I suppose I could put the whole thing in a
linux VM under MacOSX and run SoftRAID in the Mac host.

That's what I'd do. You could use Fusion or Parallels.

I have the impression Fusion is more lightweight, but that's vague since I
never used it.  Parallels is what I've been using "at home" and I have to
say it seem a bit heavy, maybe overkill for a mail server that only needs a
disk and a nic.

Here's the other thing:  Bernstein I think used to say not to ever use qmail
over NFS, and I'm not sure of the implications of that, or whether it is

I think DJB was probably referring to the queues specifically. He does some low level (inode) things with those. I run the Maildirs across NFS with no problems.

But I'd rather not dedicate a disk for the qmail VM,

The VM will have its own virtual disk, which will be a file that resides on the Mac's native filesystem, which sits on SoftRAID. You could choose to put your Maildirs on the native filesystem if you'd like, and NFS share them back to the VM. Not much point in that really though, unless you want them there to be easier to back up. (Remember, RAID is *not* a backup).

and in fact
would like the web sever (or at least sqwebmail) to have access to the qmail
directory hierarchy.

sqwebmail will have access to the mail via IMAP (courier or dovecot). QMT provides full IMAP support. It includes SquirrelMail web server, but you probably wouldn't want to use that.

So I'd want to use the host file sharing provided by
Parallels or Fusion, and perhaps that does not raise the problems that NFS
would raise.

I typically steer clear of host file sharing, and use NFS where needed. Better the devil you know. ;) NFS shouldn't be a problem though if it's done right.

-Eric 'shubes'


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