Friday, July 4, 2003, 11:12:11 AM, Henning P. Schmiedehausen wrote: > Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: > >>Still not ad-hominem. I attacked your idea, and explained why I thought >>it was ill-advised. > > You wrote that it is necessary, to "keep your hand on your wallet"
Hey, don't cheat! That was in a different thread... the debated question in this thread was if the concrete initial affair in this thread was ad hominem or not... Not that it is interesting if it was or not -- it's not a philosophy mailing list -- just if you debate then do it in accordance with the rules. > when being around on this list, which IMHO implies that you consider > members of this list being thieves. > > This is, what I'd call "a personal attack". Worse, it's a perfidious > below the belt attack. The fact that you didn't actually write it > down but just implied it, doesn't make it better. [snip] I'm not inherently determined to protect Jonathan (even if I'm a FM contrib.), but these are artificial reasonings. *Obviously*, nobody will think that Vel. people are actually pickpockets, also *obviously* Jonathan didn't meant it verbatim, it was cleanly just a nasty sarcastic note. OK, its an ugly thing to say things like this (i.e. that they are thrives), but you know, this is something like if I say you: "You shit!". It's offending, but nobody will think that you are actually from excrement. So, simply put, it's ridiculous if you start to prove, that I have slandered you, that you are from excrement (while you are form flesh), because I want to discredit you. Actually, "You shit!" just means that "I hate you!". Frankly, I think that you are just playing with the words, be trying to to win some rhetorical battle: it was NOT ad hominem attack. It's cleanly an artificial thing to start to use this affair to prove ad hominem attacks. Also, and most importantly, I don't believe that anybody can *really* be offended on things like this... it's a such pretending... you realize that "Phew... this guy is really angry about us..." and that's all. > Your continous sneering and putting out side blows in all directions > simpy obliterate your possible technical arguments. Most people that I > know don't listen to any valuable input if it is delivered in an > obnoxious way like yours is. > > You think, that developers will put up with your ego, if your > "technical" input is good. That's wrong. Developers simply will stop > listening to you, no matter what improvements you propose. Because > your arguments drown in a continous drone of ridicule. The whole self-exciting flaming is full with the lack of frankness and with pretending (especially on the Vel. side), senseless offences (especially on Jonathan's side) and glowing dispute that has lost any of its original points (on both side), and today it exists solely for itself. It's a bloated sh*t. And the conclusion that J.R. is an utterly terrible man, so he will drive you crazy if you are an FM user/developer... is, as a matter of fact, mistaken. > You seem to expect that everyone discusses only "technical" > information and you're allowed to deliver your snide comments "from > high" because of your conceived supremacy to us mere mortals. > > To me, who knew zilch about FreeMarker some weeks ago, the whole FM > project now feels like "technical interesting, but the surrounding > people have a serious problem towards anything Apache". Continous > putting down of other projects isn't a good way to promote the > superiority of your own project. It seems that there is some Can you imagine that somebody puts down a project because he *really* thinks that the project is technically inferior? And not because of some religious or political reasons? > desparation because an "abandoned, sub-standard" thing like Velocity > has a much, much larger user base than FM, simply because it is "ASF". (which is BTW, I strongly believe, true...) > But putting it down won't help FreeMarker at all. This is, what you > don't seem to grasp. Kind of political question... but I also think it doesn't help FM. > Jonathan, we _all_ have noticed that you're "much better at writing > templating engines" than this group of developers (your words). You > rubbed it in many times and at least I am now under the firm > impression that your technical abilities go along with a serious ego > problem. Which is bad, because the _only_ thing that stands beween me > and testing out FreeMarker in a production environment is actually > your ego and the prospect of having to work with people that have > attitude problems like you if a problem crops up. [snip] It's mistaken. An important difference between Vel. and FM. community is exactly that FM developers respect criticism more from the users. And you will not be bashed just because you tell negative critics... well, except if you say *utter* nonsense. If something is s*it, then you can tell that that's s*it; nobody will be offended. -- Best regards, Daniel Dekany --------------------------------------------------------------------- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
