Jonathan Revusky <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Still not ad-hominem. I attacked your idea, and explained why I thought it was ill-advised.
You wrote that it is necessary, to "keep your hand on your wallet" when being around on this list, which IMHO implies that you consider members of this list being thieves.
This is, what I'd call "a personal attack". Worse, it's a perfidious below the belt attack. The fact that you didn't actually write it down but just implied it, doesn't make it better.
I feel it was quite appropriate. I was responding to a bunch of phony drivel about how everybody loves me and wants to have a big group hug. I sarcastically stated that it would be a partial hug in my case because I wanted to keep one hand on my wallet. I was indicating that I perceived extreme phoniness on the part of these people and that therefore I didn't trust them any further than I could throw them.
Your continous sneering and putting out side blows in all directions simpy obliterate your possible technical arguments. Most people that I know don't listen to any valuable input if it is delivered in an obnoxious way like yours is.
Now, this, for example is, just ad-hominem drivel. I'm obnoxious, I'm this, I'm that, so that discredits or devalues any technical point I made.
Pure ad hominem.
Besides, I have had enough interaction with you recently, Henning, to know how obnoxious you are, so, you know... you're in a glass house throwing stones anyway.
You think, that developers will put up with your ego, if your "technical" input is good. That's wrong. Developers simply will stop listening to you, no matter what improvements you propose. Because your arguments drown in a continous drone of ridicule. You seem to expect that everyone discusses only "technical" information and you're allowed to deliver your snide comments "from high" because of your conceived supremacy to us mere mortals.
The stuff about my great ego is very overblown. The fact remains that, as I have said, there has been no ongoing development on Velocity over the past year. Nothing. No CVS commits. No new features, no bug-fixes, no improvements in documentation or examples. No nothing.
For me to contrast favorably my efforts and that of the FreeMarker community with the above-described situation does not require some inflated ego. It boils down to the fact that we are comparing a serious ongoing development effort (on the FreeMarker side) with *absolutely nothing* (on the Velocity side).
Obviously the results of a year of our hard work are going to be better than the results of a year of *doing absolutely nothing at all*.
So, to say this is not so terribly egotistical... <shrug>
To me, who knew zilch about FreeMarker some weeks ago,
Henning, I am confident that you still know zilch about FreeMarker.
the whole FM
project now feels like "technical interesting, but the surrounding
people have a serious problem towards anything Apache".
So what? That's just more irrelevant ad-hominem type stuff.
Continous putting down of other projects isn't a good way to promote the superiority of your own project. It seems that there is some desparation because an "abandoned, sub-standard" thing like Velocity has a much, much larger user base than FM, simply because it is "ASF". But putting it down won't help FreeMarker at all. This is, what you don't seem to grasp.
Maybe not. But there is nothing ethically or morally wrong with my pointing out the true state of the Velocity project. I have noticed an ongoing attempt to mask the truth. Over the last months, I have perceived a tacit agreement here to keep talking about the project as if it was alive, as if ongoing development was taking place. "Maybe the committers will do this". "Have you submitted a patch for that?" And so on. They even put out a release in April that was identical to the previous release 8 months prior simply to give the impression that something was happening.
It seems right and proper for me to say that the emperor is wearing no clothes. That actually could be beneficial to the Velocity project if people respond pro-actively to that wake-up call. Whether it's beneficial to FreeMarker or not, I don't know. But that's not relevant anyway.
Jonathan, we _all_ have noticed that you're "much better at writing templating engines" than this group of developers (your words). You rubbed it in many times and at least I am now under the firm impression that your technical abilities go along with a serious ego problem. Which is bad, because the _only_ thing that stands beween me and testing out FreeMarker in a production environment is actually your ego and the prospect of having to work with people that have attitude problems like you if a problem crops up.
If you were able to exhale, you might have been able to persuade some velocity users to try out and maybe use FreeMarker. But I'm pretty sure, that most developers and users that read the archive of the discussion of the last days will not touch FM with a ten-feet pole.
This is just speculation on your part. Actually, many of the people showing up on the FreeMarker lists are pretty obviously Velocity refugees.
That's your personal achievement and has nothing to do with technical aspects of any templating engine or one being superior to the other. It's your attitude and that's the truth.
The above is just more irrelevant ad-hominem smoke-blowing.
Regards,
Jonathan Revusky
--
lead developer, FreeMarker project, http://freemarker.org/
Use JSP taglibs from a FreeMarker template: http://freemarker.org/docs/pgui_misc_servlet.html
Regards Henning
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