Jonathan Revusky wrote:
sgtmcd wrote:
Will Glass-Husain wrote:
Ah, hi Jonathan how are you?
I think we discussed this issue extensively last time Jonathan was
on the
last a couple of years ago. Perhaps I might suggest the rest of the
Velocity community just refuse to be baited and stick to the topic
at hand?
(basically, ignore the temptation to have the last word).
As I remember, the topic was how new community members can help out.
Cheers,
WILL
[snip]
Cooler heads always prevail. I hadn't heard of freemarker until today.
Interesting.
I have too much already written in velocity and it all works.
You know, frankly, if you're in the market for a certain category of
thing, it makes some sense to survey what's out there.
three months ago, I googled for template engines, jsp alternatives,
template tools (I can't remember all the search terms) and freemarker
did not appear anywhere in the results.
It's funny about software. You know, in a regular market, how many
people buy the first item they come across without any comparison
shopping? Like, the very first car they ever test drove. "Well,
everything I tried to do in the car worked -- turning left, turning
right, reversing etcetera. So, I didn't look at anything else. I
bought it. A great car."
Yet this seems to be the norm in software.
there are things I would like to have better, so I decided to
volunteer my time.
In a way, that's to be commended. But isn't volunteering one's time to
add features still something of a last resort? Shouldn't one first
survey the space and see if another tool *already* does what you want?
yes and no. I using velocity. It is being used several places in
several applications. It is not my entire view layer. I use jsp's for
most of the view layer. I don't feel a template tool is the best fit
for interactive pages, etc. So, places that I have a model that I just
want to stick in a page pre formated, I create a template. I use
templates as bodies of emails, etc.
So, basically, I did research and found that velocity met my needs.
What I have found is that if I try and do something in velocity that
can't be done, it makes me step back and really think about all the
horrid logic I am trying to put into my view layer.
Or, put from another perspective, is there that much merit in
re-inventing the wheel?
not re-inventing the wheel. I am using a product that works and seems
to be adopted and accepted by a large portion of the j2ee community.
I am digging through the wiki and source and will try my hand at
getting a patch done to fix an issue.
Velocity seemed dead to me, but still viable. It is highly
recommended in many j2ee/spring framework documents/books. In a
feature comparison, it does seem freemarker has a few more features.
However, what I couldn't do in the template, I did in my controller
and stuffed into the model. Not elegant, but it worked.
I am not one to let anyone give me the run around. I like to get
things done and see velocity as another great tool.
I don't really want to sound like such a mean guy, Shawn. But how on
earth do you know it's a great tool? By your own admission, you did
not know of the existence of FreeMarker -- probably Velocity's most
important competitor -- until today. So you did no survey of the
alternatives in this space. You have nothing to compare it to, yet
you're willing to say it's a great tool.
I don't take your comments as 'mean'. I do, however, think you are
frustrated that your product didn't get evaluated. I can respect that.
If I had found it via google as mentioned before, I would have evaluated
it. From what I am reading I am not sure it would have changed the
result. I wanted a fast, simple template tool, that by design is
feature poor. I use this phrase based on conversations that I have read
in several forumn archives.
If a Honda Civic was the only car you had ever driven, would you say
it was a great car? If so, on what basis?
Are you saying it's a great tool because there are these books that
write about it -- so it must be, even though you never compared it to
anything else? Or are you saying it's a great tool because you're
trying to win points with the people on this list?
No, I am saying it is a great tool because it solved a need and it does
it well.
I don't like picking on you because I'm so aware that this kind of
thing is just typical. It's not you.
I think you are very frustrated. That is understandable. My advice is
to not get wrapped up in the 'linux distro' type of discussion. My crux
box is so much better than your [insert distro here]! Of course it
isn't! It just solves a particular need that I have.
Is there any other field where people behave like this?
Jonathan Revusky
I appreciate the fact that you didn't approach this as angrily as most
would have. If you hadn't kept your tone at a friendly level and
admitted that you are a freemarker advocate/developer I would have
immediatley dismissed you as a troll.
Kind regards,
Shawn
---------------------------------------------------------------------
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
