Larry, Thanks. I would love to come fishing with you and then spend some tying time to compare methods in great detail.
There is one part of the Nor-Vise rope that I'm still wondering about. Does the tying thread spiral with the materials into a rope, or does it stay a straight-line core? If it stays a straight-line core, then it is twisting on its axis with the noodle, right? 2nd, can you slide all of the roped materials down the thread to compress them to make the dubbing, hackles, and whatever other materials thicker before you wrap the shank? If the thread remains a straight-line core, you should be able to do this. 3. Does the thread ever break before you get maximum dubbing tightness? (I rope to the breaking strength of the dubbed materials, unless I want a lose dubbing to pick out.) If you have a web-cam, we can compare notes live right over the PCs. My friend in Bigfork got one and we video-chat now rather than phone chat. The advantage is we can share flies, photos, videos, etc. live. Last night I set up our cruise last year on the slide show program and pointed the camera at the screen so he could watch it. So he watched the slide show while I commented on what the pictures were about. No mess, no fuss, no file transmissions. He just got his 1st aquarium and points the camera at the fish so I can see what he got and how they are doing. I've been a life-long aquarion-keeper. I told him to run out and vid-cam the grizzly bear while it was night-feeding on that dead deer in his yard, using a flash-light to film by and using his notebook PC as a portable Linksys base. For some odd reason, he declined. This could be used for fly-tying tutorials, eh? You tie, I watch. I tie, you watch. Live video and audio. Be like a conclave, but without the conclave. DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Johnson" <johns...@uvu.edu> To: <vfb-mail@googlegroups.com> Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:59 AM Subject: Re: [VFB] Rope dubbing peacock- vs other techniques After a half-hitch at the top of the hook bend, I tie in the hackle, tinsel, and peacock, then another half-hitch. At that point I hold all materials ( hackle, tinsel, peacock AND thread ) in my right hand (in line with the hook) and spin them (all materials and the hook ) with the left hand. The thread becomes the wire you use. Taper and segments can all be achieved with the materials around the thread, just like the wire. When you have wound to the point where you have sufficient for the pattern, then swing the materials from in-line with the hook to a right angle with the hook. Turn the hook now to wind all the materials on to the hook (from bend toward the eye), laying down wraps as segments as you go. Works for me... If this explanation doesn't help, I will try again. I wish I was set up to make a mini-video... Larry J >>> "Don Ordes" <f...@tribcsp.com> 11/3/2010 1:35 PM >>> Larry, I don't advocate that the rope-dub replaces everything. I advocate that the rope-dub works with all dubbings and is very fast, and achieves segments with taper in one pass, and speed, and all of the other things I list on the website page. If someone wants to stay with a loop or other method because they are comfortable and practiced with it, who am I to say otherwise? But if someone can't afford the Nor-vise ($340+/-) and the load-em-up retractable bobbins, they can get the same results just as fast once they master the RD. My advocacy is that a tier can use one technique for all dubbings, and have better control of the results with the fingertip manipulation of the noodle. I didn't show photos yet, but I introduce many other materials along with tinsels into the peacock rope, such as cactus chennilles and ice-dub. I show on the DVD that once the technique is mastered, a materials pliers can be used to speed up (not replace) the process even more. DVD#2 will show even more techniques like this. Syn-seal is one dubbing that is speeded up by using a material clip (it's so slick). But shape control is still with the fingertips on a stationary core. I have a question for you. When you Nor-Vise your noodle, does the wire twist with the peacock? A major departure of the rope-dub from other methods is that the wire does not twist and the roped noodle can therefore be compressed and shaped for a one-pass tie. I've seen tons of take-offs of the hackle-with-the-noodle approach, but they've all been since I originally posted it on the VFB in 2001, and I had been showing it in shows 2 years prior to that. I wouldn't bet my life on it, of course, but I was never able to find any references to 'noodling the hackle with the dubbing' before 2000. I watched Lefty rope peacock with wire in 2004 in Denver, but he didn't add the hackle to the rope. Last thing I care to get into is a technique-war. I published the rope-dubbing for free for over 10 years and put it on Byard's site in 2001- all for free. I wasn't trying to 'take' anyone and everyone had a choice and I didn't care what that was. No money was at stake. At the shows, the extended demos took 20 minutes and covered a dozen or more flies and sub-techniques. Viewers stated that they could never remember it all, and so did I have a DVD. A few thought it was Polly's technique, but I showed them in his book that it is not. So many of them, like Denny Conrad, asked for a DVD so they could study and practice all of the techniques at home. I still don't know if it was the best thing to do, but it's done. The DVD is out and getting reviewed by the entire industry, with almost all positive feed-back. I've had a few un-informed web-posters say negative things about it, but they were promptly informed. A few complain about the price, but they are not purchasers or rope-dubbers, so they have no concept of the actual value of the methods on the DVD. Al Beatty reviewed it just after I gave him one at the FFF clave in W Yellowstone. He loved it and wrote a very positive review (so he tells me) for Fly Tyer Magazine, and wanted to buy the DVD. It's FTM's choice when they print it, and I haven't seen it. I still rope-dub demo for free at the shows. Fortunately, it goes so fast that viewers cannot retain what they see, and they still get the DVD if they can afford it. That's the other thing- the economy. That's why I did a 25% discount for the next 2 months to make it easier to buy them as gifts. So I say if you like your Nor-Vise better, by all means stick with it. I just hope you've done a heads-up comparison of speed vs results vs versatility. Very Best Regards, DonO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Larry Johnson" <johns...@uvu.edu> To: <vfb-mail@googlegroups.com> Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:22 PM Subject: Re: [VFB] Rope dubbing peacock- Fly of the Week- peacock Don: I know that you are a great advocate of the rope-dub technique. I have been doing the same thing you are doing with the peacock and hackle for years on my Nor-Vise. I add a strip of narrow tinsel to it. I fish it like that, or use it as a body for a caddis or mayfly, etc. Larry Johnson Springville, Utah >>> "Don Ordes" <f...@tribcsp.com> 11/3/2010 11:18 AM >>> For Rope-dubbers: Below is just a little of what can be done with rope-dubbing peacock, hackle, and dubbing. This is a local pattern called a half-back nymph. I tied the wing-case on and left it in a post-type position. I roped the peacock over wire in a 50/50 bare/hackle set-up. When I wrapped forward, the hackle started at the wingcase and finished at the bead. I then pulled the wing forward and tied off. The hackling looks different than a palmered version (see close-up below) and is tooth-proof. (See portion way below) Compressed, dense hackle^ This is a size 26 peacock fly, using the fine- but weak- iridescent green feathers above the peacock eye. It much stronger when roped with a strong core thread. Your peacock can be furled so tight that it will furl on itself. I was never able to get it this tight twisting the wire with the peacock as the wire would break, as it is too brittle to twist. Above is an assortment of approaches. Don't forget that your rope can be compressed to make it thicker and this bunches up the hackles, making them denser. (photo #2) The hackle can be introduced at any part of the fly, or on the whole fly. This photo above demonstrates the durability of a wire-cored peacock/hackle fly. I took a small saw and chewed off the peacock and hackle all the way down the the core. The fly still cannot come unravelled- either the peacock or the hackle. Actually, I have a couple like this I use as patterns with copper-colored wire segments showing. I do this saw-demo at all the shows. Chuck has gotten a ton of these demo-flies to salvage the hooks. Go ahead and ask any questions. DonO -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. 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