It stays a straight line core so you can move the dubbing up or down, thin it out or make it thicker as you desire. I start the dubbing thin, make it thicker and then slide the tiny thin end up to the hook and wrap it round the hook with a nice even wrap moving forward..no need to actually tie the dubbing down first. Joyce
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:05 AM, Don Ordes <[email protected]> wrote: > Larry, > Thanks. > > I would love to come fishing with you and then spend some tying time to > compare methods in great detail. > > There is one part of the Nor-Vise rope that I'm still wondering about. > Does the tying thread *spiral with *the materials into a rope, or does > it stay a *straight-line core*? If it stays a straight-line core, then it > is twisting on its axis with the noodle, right? > > 2nd, can you slide all of the roped materials down the thread to compress > them to make the dubbing, hackles, and whatever other materials thicker > before you wrap the shank? If the thread remains a straight-line core, you > should be able to do this. > > 3. Does the thread ever break before you get maximum dubbing tightness? (I > rope to the breaking strength of the dubbed materials, unless I want a lose > dubbing to pick out.) > > If you have a web-cam, we can compare notes live right over the PCs. My > friend in Bigfork got one and we video-chat now rather than phone chat. The > advantage is we can share flies, photos, videos, etc. live. Last night I > set up our cruise last year on the slide show program and pointed the camera > at the screen so he could watch it. So he watched the slide show while I > commented on what the pictures were about. No mess, no fuss, no file > transmissions. He just got his 1st aquarium and points the camera at the > fish so I can see what he got and how they are doing. I've been a life-long > aquarion-keeper. > > I told him to run out and vid-cam the grizzly bear while it was > night-feeding on that dead deer in his yard, using a flash-light to film > by and using his notebook PC as a portable Linksys base. For some odd > reason, he declined. > > This could be used for fly-tying tutorials, eh? You tie, I watch. I tie, > you watch. Live video and audio. > > Be like a conclave, but without the conclave. > > DonO > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Johnson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2010 7:59 AM > Subject: Re: [VFB] Rope dubbing peacock- vs other techniques > > After a half-hitch at the top of the hook bend, I tie in the hackle, > tinsel, and peacock, then another half-hitch. At that point I hold all > materials ( hackle, tinsel, peacock AND thread ) in my right hand (in line > with the hook) and spin them (all materials and the hook ) with the left > hand. The thread becomes the wire you use. Taper and segments can all be > achieved with the materials around the thread, just like the wire. When you > have wound to the point where you have sufficient for the pattern, then > swing the materials from in-line with the hook to a right angle with the > hook. Turn the hook now to wind all the materials on to the hook (from bend > toward the eye), laying down wraps as segments as you go. Works for me... > If this explanation doesn't help, I will try again. I wish I was set up > to make a mini-video... > > Larry J > > >>> "Don Ordes" <[email protected]> 11/3/2010 1:35 PM >>> > Larry, > I don't advocate that the rope-dub replaces everything. I advocate that the > > rope-dub works with all dubbings and is very fast, and achieves segments > with taper in one pass, and speed, and all of the other things I list on > the > website page. If someone wants to stay with a loop or other method because > > they are comfortable and practiced with it, who am I to say otherwise? > > But if someone can't afford the Nor-vise ($340+/-) and the load-em-up > retractable bobbins, they can get the same results just as fast once they > master the RD. My advocacy is that a tier can use one technique for all > dubbings, and have better control of the results with the fingertip > manipulation of the noodle. I didn't show photos yet, but I introduce many > > other materials along with tinsels into the peacock rope, such as cactus > chennilles and ice-dub. I show on the DVD that once the technique is > mastered, a materials pliers can be used to speed up (not replace) the > process even more. DVD#2 will show even more techniques like this. > Syn-seal is one dubbing that is speeded up by using a material clip (it's > so > slick). But shape control is still with the fingertips on a stationary > core. > > I have a question for you. When you Nor-Vise your noodle, does the wire > twist with the peacock? A major departure of the rope-dub from other > methods is that the wire does not twist and the roped noodle can therefore > be compressed and shaped for a one-pass tie. > > I've seen tons of take-offs of the hackle-with-the-noodle approach, but > they've all been since I originally posted it on the VFB in 2001, and I had > > been showing it in shows 2 years prior to that. I wouldn't bet my life on > it, of course, but I was never able to find any references to 'noodling the > > hackle with the dubbing' before 2000. I watched Lefty rope peacock with > wire in 2004 in Denver, but he didn't add the hackle to the rope. > > Last thing I care to get into is a technique-war. I published the > rope-dubbing for free for over 10 years and put it on Byard's site in 2001- > > all for free. I wasn't trying to 'take' anyone and everyone had a choice > and I didn't care what that was. No money was at stake. At the shows, the > > extended demos took 20 minutes and covered a dozen or more flies and > sub-techniques. Viewers stated that they could never remember it all, and > so did I have a DVD. A few thought it was Polly's technique, but I showed > them in his book that it is not. So many of them, like Denny Conrad, > asked > for a DVD so they could study and practice all of the techniques at home. > > I still don't know if it was the best thing to do, but it's done. The DVD > is out and getting reviewed by the entire industry, with almost all > positive > feed-back. I've had a few un-informed web-posters say negative things > about > it, but they were promptly informed. A few complain about the price, but > they are not purchasers or rope-dubbers, so they have no concept of the > actual value of the methods on the DVD. Al Beatty reviewed it just after I > > gave him one at the FFF clave in W Yellowstone. He loved it and wrote a > very positive review (so he tells me) for Fly Tyer Magazine, and wanted to > buy the DVD. It's FTM's choice when they print it, and I haven't seen it. > > I still rope-dub demo for free at the shows. Fortunately, it goes so fast > that viewers cannot retain what they see, and they still get the DVD if > they > can afford it. That's the other thing- the economy. That's why I did a > 25% > discount for the next 2 months to make it easier to buy them as gifts. > > So I say if you like your Nor-Vise better, by all means stick with it. I > just hope you've done a heads-up comparison of speed vs results vs > versatility. > > Very Best Regards, > DonO > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Larry Johnson" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 12:22 PM > Subject: Re: [VFB] Rope dubbing peacock- Fly of the Week- peacock > > > Don: I know that you are a great advocate of the rope-dub technique. I > have been doing the same thing you are doing with the peacock and hackle > for > years on my Nor-Vise. I add a strip of narrow tinsel to it. I fish it > like > that, or use it as a body for a caddis or mayfly, etc. > > Larry Johnson > Springville, Utah > > >>> "Don Ordes" <[email protected]> 11/3/2010 11:18 AM >>> > For Rope-dubbers: > > Below is just a little of what can be done with rope-dubbing peacock, > hackle, and dubbing. > > > This is a local pattern called a half-back nymph. I tied the wing-case on > and left it in a post-type position. > I roped the peacock over wire in a 50/50 bare/hackle set-up. When I > wrapped > forward, the hackle started at the > wingcase and finished at the bead. I then pulled the wing forward and tied > > off. The hackling looks different > than a palmered version (see close-up below) and is tooth-proof. (See > portion way below) > > > > Compressed, dense hackle^ > > > This is a size 26 peacock fly, using the fine- but weak- iridescent green > feathers above the peacock > eye. It much stronger when roped with a strong core thread. > > > Your peacock can be furled so tight that it will furl on itself. I was > never able to get it this tight > twisting the wire with the peacock as the wire would break, as it is too > brittle to twist. > > > > Above is an assortment of approaches. Don't forget that your rope can be > compressed > to make it thicker and this bunches up the hackles, making them denser. > (photo #2) > The hackle can be introduced at any part of the fly, or on the whole fly. > > > > > This photo above demonstrates the durability of a wire-cored peacock/hackle > > fly. I took a small saw and chewed off the peacock and hackle all the way > down the the core. The fly still cannot come unravelled- either the > peacock > or the hackle. Actually, I have a couple like this I use as patterns with > copper-colored wire segments showing. I do this saw-demo at all the shows. > > Chuck has gotten a ton of these demo-flies to salvage the hooks. > > Go ahead and ask any questions. > > DonO > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" > group. > > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > [email protected] > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en > > VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VFB Mail" group. 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