I think we've gotten as far as we are going to with this argument :-)
However, regarding the part about... believing that forcibly taking away someone else's freedom is NOT morally wrong means that you MUST also believe that slavery is NOT morally wrong. Just to point out one thing,... because I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. I do NOT think you believe that slavery is OK. I think that it may be the case that what you believe is inconsistent. (I.e., you believe something that logically makes slavery OK, but don't realize it.) In other words, you have a contradiction in your beliefs.
For example, I would be inconsistent (and I would have a contradiction) if I believed that the consumption of ANY narcotic was morally wrong, but I thought consuming alcohol was OK. The legality of the narcotic is irrelevant. (I've heard this inconsistency from people alot.)
If you want to take this off-list I'll lay out the argument for you. (At this point, it's probably becoming way too off-topic for the VideoBlogging mailing list.)
But essentially, the argument is just logical deduction. If you're familiar with formal mathematical proofs or things like axiomatic logic, then this will probably be pretty familiar.
Also, it's not a horrible thing to be inconsistent. (The only horrible thing is actually realizing you have one and not doing anything about it to resolve it. Of course, it's actually YOU that has to realize it. And not just have someone tell you you have one.)
I find myself in that situation from time to time. (Often after long heated arguments with others.) And although finding that I've been inconsistent in my beliefs is unsettling. Once I find that I've been inconsistent, I strive to find a way to resolve this. (And my beliefs must change.)
See ya
On 5/19/06, David Meade <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On 5/19/06, Charles Iliya Krempeaux < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:(If you don't believe this, then fair enough,... but then we should probably have another discussion because believing that forcibly taking away someone else's freedom is NOT morally wrong means that you MUST also believe that slavery is NOT morally wrong.)
And if you're not with us you're against us. Its not that black or white, and presenting an issue with all sorts of grey and saying if you don't believe one polar extreme here then your must also believe another is not only unfair ... it's the sort of scary irresponsible logic that's leads to dark dark chapters in human history.
Forcibly taking someone freedom is GENERALLY bad, yes. Certainly there are no shortage of examples where forcibly taking someones freedom is about as bad and evil as something can get. But that doesn't mean its a black or white issue.
Convicting and locking someone up who cant seem to stop himself from killing and raping ... I'm ok with that. Did we take away his freedom by putting him jail? Yes. Was it morally wrong? Not to my mind. Clearly there are examples of times when limiting freedom is an acceptable action within a society that believes in laws and government.
Removing a freedom to harm someone ... or removing a freedom to actively deny someones constitutionally granted rights ... that's something that most people have accepted within a society that believes in laws and government.
Now you can make an argument for anarchy and wild-west style justice ... but lets save that for another thread.
Do I think its morally wrong to make a law that prevents corporations from actively denying The People from the very rights that legal system is supposed to grant us ... no I do not. And that does NOT mean I favor slavery. (and here I was the one being accused of making outrageous arguments).
--
Charles Iliya Krempeaux, B.Sc.
charles @ reptile.ca
supercanadian @ gmail.com
developer weblog: http://ChangeLog.ca/
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