To echo Gary, if rights-holders release their content on DVD I will buy it so
that my patrons can watch a high-quality version of their video rather than the
deteriorating VHS I currently have. I am a librarian, though, and it's neither
within my purview nor my skill set to make that happen. No one is trying to be
underhanded, and I'm pretty sure that rights-holder's might like it that
someone took measures to make sure that their work was not lost to history so
that no will ever get to see it again, ever.
Matt
______________________________
Matt Ball
Media and Collections Librarian
University of Virginia
mattb...@virginia.edu
434-924-3812
On Sep 12, 2011, at 4:15 PM, "ghand...@library.berkeley.edu"
<ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
> You're picking at nits, Jessica...and you're making me itch.
>
> This project is aimed at developing ways to identify portions of a
> standing library video collection that are likely to be 1) at some
> physical risk of deterioration or destruction 2) Not currently available
> for purchase in any format. Again, the focus is primarily on titles which
> were initially available commercially.
>
> NYU, for their part, seems to be focusing on titles which are scarcely
> held in US libraries. I'm less concerned about scarcity than materials
> which are of heavily used or which have demonstrated historical value.
>
> No one is talking "archival" here.
>
> If the items in question were available for purchase, we'd be buying them
> as replacement. The alternative is to let the tapes crumble...something
> that will certainly happen if we have to "work with the rights owners."
>
> "since the head of the project is against even contacting rights
> holders"...who are you talking about? You got the wrong project. One of
> the main focuses of this study is to develop workflows and methods for
> attempting to identify acquisition sources, including rights holders.
>
> Gary
>
>
>
>> Well my problem is the idea that transferring a VHS to DVD constitutes
>> any kind of "preservation" or "archiving", beyond the "preservation"
>> of a place being able to keep a copy of something that is not
>> intrinsically rare or special. Is every person who copies their old
>> VHS collection to DVD an archivist? While I understand the
>> frustration of something you use being unavailable is twisting a
>> section of the law clearly meant for real preservation of genuinely
>> rare materials not items that are out of print because in most cases
>> the rights holders can't afford to put them out and of course if
>> institutions just make copies of old VHS copies, they will never be
>> released in a decent version. It is ironic that in trying to keep
>> items "available" you will dramatically lesson the possibility that
>> they will in fact become available in a real copy mastered from good
>> materials. Not to mention that the only people who will ever see them
>> are institutions who bought copies when the VHS ( or DVD) was
>> originally released.
>>
>> You might suggest that some of this energy be put to actually working
>> with rights holders to get these rare items actually released, however
>> since the head of the project is against even contacting rights
>> holders I won't hold my breath.
>>
>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 3:40 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>> That's what is enormously idiotic about 108 (well, one of the things):
>>> there is absolutely no adequate definition of "damaged" or "at risk." If
>>> we waited until the damn things were totally unplayable, how could we
>>> preserve them. I'm basically taking the tact that virtually any tape
>>> over
>>> a few years old (which means almost all of them) is at some physical
>>> risk
>>> and has deteriorated to some extent. Bottom line is if it's on tape and
>>> if it can't be repurchased in any format, it's fair game in my book.
>>>
>>> gary
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> What really constitutes "physical danger." Does it have to be actual
>>>> damage to the tape, bleed through, discoloration, etc., or can it be
>>>> the
>>>> fact that it might just cease to exist? Is this one of those "I know
>>>> what
>>>> it is when I see it" definitions, or is it really much more literal
>>>> that
>>>> that?
>>>>
>>>> What would that be -- they're being disappeared.
>>>>
>>>> Randal Baier
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>>> From: "Jessica Rosner" <jessicapros...@gmail.com>
>>>> To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>>> Sent: Monday, September 12, 2011 2:23:24 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [Videolib] Need your reality check, pls
>>>>
>>>> Well the problem there is that I know you "object" to the part that
>>>> requires any copy not to circulate beyond the library premise and of
>>>> course that it can't be copied merely because it is rare, but must
>>>> also be in physical danger. I have a feeling most people won't abide
>>>> by those parts of the law and you can't just pick and choose what
>>>> parts of copyright law you like.
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 2:11 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu> wrote:
>>>>> We're not dealing with scarcity or uniqueness...we're dealing with
>>>>> titles
>>>>> that were initially available commercially, but are no available for
>>>>> purchase in any format. Section 108 does not distinguish between
>>>>> fiction
>>>>> and non-fiction film. If due diligence is done to determine the
>>>>> unavailability of a feature, and if it meets the conditions of 108 in
>>>>> terms of damage/loss, and is used as specified in 108, it is eligible
>>>>> for
>>>>> reproduction under the terms of the law.
>>>>>
>>>>> This project is attempting to develop methodologies and best practices
>>>>> for
>>>>> identifying such materials--both fiction and non-fiction--in library
>>>>> collections, as well as best practices for dealing with these titles
>>>>> in
>>>>> terms of preservation.
>>>>>
>>>>> gary
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>> Gary,
>>>>>> I am a little confused on the goal here re feature films. It is very,
>>>>>> very unlikely that out of print feature film is remotely rare in the
>>>>>> archival sense. For a variety of business or legal reasons a studio,
>>>>>> filmmaker or in many cases foreign company has chosen not reissue it.
>>>>>> What would be the point of "preserving" and old VHS ( or DVD) of an
>>>>>> out of print title by say anyone from John Ford to Fassbinder? It
>>>>>> could not circulate and the rights holder would in fact have far
>>>>>> better materials.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> As I have mentioned on more than one occasion I had a little
>>>>>> "disagreement" with one of the heads of this project at ALA when he
>>>>>> told a librarian that they should NOT attempt to contact a rights
>>>>>> holder because they might object to copying a film they owned but was
>>>>>> out of print. I would be rather surprised if this was your view.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am honestly a bit concerned by this project. I think some library
>>>>>> collections may contain unique materials on film or things like
>>>>>> BetaSp, but again it is awfully unlikely they would have truly unique
>>>>>> material from most companies listed below. Are they planning to just
>>>>>> make copies available of rare out o print titles because a rights
>>>>>> holder most likely can't afford the cost of mastering and releasing
>>>>>> the film?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 12, 2011 at 1:43 PM, <ghand...@library.berkeley.edu>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> hi guys
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Still plugging away on the Mellon grant I've been alluding to for a
>>>>>>> number
>>>>>>> of months now (identifying out of distribution/at-risk materials in
>>>>>>> library video collections)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The task is going to be to develop a methodology to identify
>>>>>>> potential
>>>>>>> candidates in library video collections. The project lead is NYU and
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> investigators there are looking at scarce titles in the collections
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> each of the three project partners (i.e. held by one library only)
>>>>>>> as
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> test universe.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I'm developing a considerably different approach. My sense is that
>>>>>>> scarce
>>>>>>> titles aren't necessarily the titles that require most urgent
>>>>>>> attention
>>>>>>> (primarily because they don't circulate much, and because a lot of
>>>>>>> these
>>>>>>> tend to be stuff that wasn't commercially distributed in the first
>>>>>>> place).
>>>>>>> Instead, I want to focus on a model that identifies broad groups of
>>>>>>> commercially distributed titles that are likely to be out of
>>>>>>> distribution
>>>>>>> in any format. Once done, I want to use circulation stat and/or
>>>>>>> anecdotal
>>>>>>> info to make decisions about which to deal with first. ("Deal with"
>>>>>>> means
>>>>>>> invoking Section 108 to digitize)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I put a list of belly-up distributors and other suspects earlier.
>>>>>>> Here
>>>>>>> is
>>>>>>> the list again with a few amendments.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What have I forgotten? Who have I left out? What else should I be
>>>>>>> thinking about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks, as always, for your sage input!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I. Identifying Vendors/Distributors know to be out of business
>>>>>>> Using Berkeley’s OskiCat local OPAC and/or the Millennium ILS,
>>>>>>> identify
>>>>>>> videos distributed by the following:
>>>>>>> • American Poetry Archive
>>>>>>> • Arthouse, Inc.
>>>>>>> • Arthur Cantor Films
>>>>>>> • Carousel Film and Video
>>>>>>> • Coronet Film and Video
>>>>>>> • CRM Films / McGraw-Hill Films,
>>>>>>> • Drift Distribution
>>>>>>> • Embassy Home Entertainment
>>>>>>> • Films Incorporated
>>>>>>> • Home Vision Cinema/Public Media Incorporated
>>>>>>> • International Film Bureau
>>>>>>> • International Media Resource Exchange / Latin American Video
>>>>>>> Archive
>>>>>>> • InterNationes / Goethe Institute
>>>>>>> • Learning Corporation of America
>>>>>>> • Media for the Arts
>>>>>>> • Media Guild
>>>>>>> • Mystic Fire Video
>>>>>>> • National Latino Communications Center (NLCC)
>>>>>>> • University of California Center for Media and Independent
>>>>>>> Learning
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> II. Identifying portions of currently in-business vendor catalogs
>>>>>>> likely
>>>>>>> to be out of distribution
>>>>>>> • ABC News / ABC Wide World of Learning
>>>>>>> • PBS Home Video/PBS Video: films with release dates before 2005
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Annenberg/CPB Project pre-2050
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • Time-Life Film and Video (pre-2000)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • History Channel (pre-2005)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> • A&E Home Entertainment (pre-2005)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> III. Feature Films
>>>>>>> List of US and foreign titles not currently available on DVD,
>>>>>>> assembled
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> members of the VIDEOLIB listserv.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Also: titles initially distributed by New Yorker Film and Video, and
>>>>>>> Center for Cuban Studies
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Gary Handman
>>>>>>> Director
>>>>>>> Media Resources Center
>>>>>>> Moffitt Library
>>>>>>> UC Berkeley
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> 510-643-8566
>>>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
>>>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>>>>>>> --Francois Truffaut
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>>>>> serve
>>>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>>>>>> channel
>>>>>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and
>>>>>>> video
>>>>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Jessica Rosner
>>>>>> Media Consultant
>>>>>> 224-545-3897 (cell)
>>>>>> 212-627-1785 (land line)
>>>>>> jessicapros...@gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>>>>> in
>>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>>>> serve
>>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>>>>> channel
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Gary Handman
>>>>> Director
>>>>> Media Resources Center
>>>>> Moffitt Library
>>>>> UC Berkeley
>>>>>
>>>>> 510-643-8566
>>>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
>>>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>>>>
>>>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>>>>> --Francois Truffaut
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation,
>>>>> acquisition,bibliographic
>>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats
>>>>> in
>>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>>> serve
>>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a
>>>>> channel
>>>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Jessica Rosner
>>>> Media Consultant
>>>> 224-545-3897 (cell)
>>>> 212-627-1785 (land line)
>>>> jessicapros...@gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>> serve
>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
>>>> of
>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will
>>>> serve
>>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
>>>> of
>>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>>> producers and distributors.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gary Handman
>>> Director
>>> Media Resources Center
>>> Moffitt Library
>>> UC Berkeley
>>>
>>> 510-643-8566
>>> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
>>> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>>>
>>> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
>>> --Francois Truffaut
>>>
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel
>>> of communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Jessica Rosner
>> Media Consultant
>> 224-545-3897 (cell)
>> 212-627-1785 (land line)
>> jessicapros...@gmail.com
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve
>> as an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>
>
> Gary Handman
> Director
> Media Resources Center
> Moffitt Library
> UC Berkeley
>
> 510-643-8566
> ghand...@library.berkeley.edu
> http://www.lib.berkeley.edu/MRC
>
> "I have always preferred the reflection of life to life itself."
> --Francois Truffaut
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
> relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
> preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
> related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
> working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
> between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
> distributors.
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control,
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and
distributors.
