Hi Julie, Susan, Franc, Susan... Great discussion! I too am fairly slow in putting some thoughts together.
Julie, you mention distinguishing between national and other markers of social identity. I mix with lots of different groups - country/city, inmate/civilian, gay/straight/ , deaf/hearing/ deaf & blind, coloured/black/white, academic/non academic/student/teacher, homeless/homehave, rich/poor, immigrant/permanent resident/illegal resident...and something that I have noticed in most gatherings of the signing deaf community is that the degree of isolation and marginalisation is so extreme that identity as a signing deaf person seems to be much stronger than any other identity. How do I observe this - really only by noticing who's present. Most gatherings include physically 'disabled', people of all colours/backgrounds, 'deaf & blind' and people willing to interpret for them, varying/all ages , unemployed, academics, interpreters, artists, actors and a huge range of language abilities and other categories I"m sure to have missed. Compared to the other groups i mix in, it usually strikes me as remarkable. The need to come together and communicate in a language that is easily understood and so denied in everyday life - it is a very exciting thing to attend a deaf community event. The signing deaf are a group without a country/nation when it comes to gaining access to status as a linguistic minority rather than a 'disability group'. They have many of the characteristics of a national/cultural/ethnic group but without a country. Regardless of the host country a deaf group's language can be completely different. Eg. Despite USA, Ireland, England being dominantly English speaking countries the sign language of each of these countries is totally different. Sometimes it seems identity belongs more to the language group rather than the host country, which of course may be an additional identity. In countries where there is no recognition of the deaf at all, the deaf are even more isolated because alone they cannot develop a sign language. Access to a signed language only occurs when there are significant numbers to create language. This group is also particularly unique in that some deaf unable to achieve any level of the host spoken language, communication and participation with the hearing community is completely dependent on an interpreter or resort to written language. I suppose people in jail, social isolation ....may experience this to some extent but rarely for their whole lives. This then places onus on the interpreter to deal with issues of 'normality', access and equity, rights to paid interpreters, representation... It is still the case that most public and many educational/private events are denied to the deaf for want of paid interpreters. Is this off the track? I wonder if there are other groups such as some religious groups, travelling groups...that fit into this category which of course includes numerous other distinctions within it. Like you Susan, I am ready with the nose peg, but look forward to feedback nonetheless :)) Pam. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Julie Diamond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, December 20, 2002 11:03 AM Subject: RE: National Identity > Hi Susan, Franc, > I'm really enjoying this discussion, and having a partner who is half > English and half Australian, am somewhat at home with tea and eating > cucumber sandwiches. > > I do find it really interesting that your common national identities helped > focus the discussion. I can't help but think, as I read, that national > identity has an awful lot in common with primary process identity. Both are > sources of cringe and pride. Both have aspects that we are conscious of, > that are almost trite or cliche, and yet there are aspects that are very > unknown & of which we are unconscious. And, like with national identity, > when we see someone else with a similar primary identity, we have a tendency > to either feel a sense of kinship or cringe-ship. > > In an article I wrote on addictions in the journal, I discussed that even a > primary identity can be used like an addiction,. We retreat into a well > known identity, pattern, behavior, to avoid things or aspects of ourselvs > that produce more discomfort. National Identity certainly would work here. > Nationalism seems to be used at the "edge." For instance, just when the > economic or social situaton is at its lowest, people start waving the flag, > beating the drums, etc. Like drowning your sorrows in a beer. > > On the other hand, like an addiction, the teleological aspects of the state > change must be valuable. If only we could go deep enough into the sentient > aspects of national identity, way deep down, past flags, past history, past > all the trappings and fanfare, and find out, what is it that pulls us, > excites us, fills us with pride or unifies us really? I know studies on > neo-Nazis and skinhead youths done in the States have made a correlation > between low self esteem, lack of identity, and interest in "white identity." > So unless there is some core feeling of self deep down, some sense of > belonging, a recognition somewhere out in the world, there are others like > "me," any affiliation will do the trick. > > As far as your studies go, Susan, there's so much in this topic, it's > fascinating. I would be interested in differentiating between national > identity and other markers of social identity. There's a lot in common with > say, gender, socio-economic class, etc. Alot of the experiences people have > around national identity depend on the overall ranking system of that > national identity, how it is relative to others. As you point out, when > nation - and the sanctity it provides - is missing, national identity > becomes a blessing. When it used as the ideology of supremacy or oppression, > it becomes a curse. > > Well, just some rambling thoughts on this wintry day, thanks you two for the > discussion so far.... hope to hear from others as well, > love > julie > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Susan Kocen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Wednesday, December 18, 2002 12:43 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: Re: National Identity > > > > > > Dear Franc, > > Thanks so much for your reply - i like reading your insights a lot. You > > email also makes me think about this whole National Identity > > thing from the > > perspective of the one whose country is not likely to be altered or > > attacked . The difference in flag sales in the United States in > > Fall/Winter > > 2001 was huge, they had been attacked as it were, and the > > National Identity > > came roaring out of it's corner. > > > > I was reading Amin Maalouf's book "In the Name of Identity" these days, > > and he writes about exactly that: > > " People often see themselves in terms of whichever one of their > > allegiances is most under attack." p.26 > > he also writes: > > "What determines a person's affiliation to a given group is > > essentially the > > influence of others: the influence of those around him who try to > > make him > > one of them; together with the influence of those on the other > > side who do > > their best to exclude him" p.25 > > > > My interest in this topic, and this Thesis that I am writing on > > it, really > > sprung from my moving to a country where the Nationalism and National > > identity was greater than anything that i had experienced before. I had > > never felt so 'other' so 'foreign' any other place in the world, > > and I can > > feel , in that country, that I will never be able to use the > > things that i > > have taken for granted before as far as my sense of belonging to > > places and > > amongst people's goes because this particular culture will never ( low > > dream ) embrace me as being 'one of them' no matter how long i > > live there. > > In feeling 'excluded' there, I am suddenly more British, more annoyed by > > difference, more stubborn in my style and ways of being. > > > > Having grown up in one culture, then emigrated to two others as > > an adult, I > > had not known this sense of foreign-ness before both because of my > > privileges of being British and white and all the colonial Brownie points > > that gave me in AUstralia and to some degree in the White, middle class > > USA, but also because even the Britain I grew up in was becoming hugely > > multi-cultural in the 60's and 70's so things were dramatically changing, > > no matter how many people complained and longed for the "good old > > days" or > > whatever Gilbert and Sullivan lyric they dragged up for that! > > > > Anyway, I hope to hear from anyone who might also have some insights of > > their own, I love this conversation with Franc that I am having also, we > > should be doing it over a cup of tea and cucumber sandwiches I suppose. > > > > Love, > > Susan > > > > --------------------- > > Please do not reply to the above address > > Instead reply to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Thank you. > > > > >
