In 1998 Dean Blazie said that refreshable Braille cells cost between $80 and $100 each. Unfortunately, since then there has been little if any reduction in that price. There are only a few manufacturers of these cells, and in business terms, the market is just too small to foster any way that they can reduce prices and still make enough to feed their employees.
Andy

-----Original Message----- From: Marianne Denning
Sent: Sunday, June 21, 2015 7:11 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Replacing Braille Notetaker with iDevice

Sadly, the cost of each braille cell is very expensive so the
companies must pass that cost on to the people who purchase their
products.  There is some work taking place to develop less expensive
braille cells but I don't know how soon those are expected to be sold.

On 6/21/15, TaraPrakash <taraprak...@gmail.com> wrote:
All the points about the utility of Braille are well taken, Jonathan's
concern about survival about Braille, and that those who know Braille are
more successful in employment field is also agreeable to me (Even if I am
not sure the source of this statistics that Jonathan quoted in his response
addressed to me..)
The problem for me is his assertion that Apple has decided to become a
screen reader company etc .... What I read in that comment is a suggestion
that Apple shouldn't have ventured in to providing screen support as there
are specialists for it. That somehow the assistive technology specialist
companies
are doing a better job for promotion of braille than apple. So, here is my
suggestion for humanware and freedom scientific who are likely to listen to
Jonathan, whose work with those companies has been commendable; and these
companies hardly face any resolution against them in the conventions of
blindness organizations who represent the blind. Let Freedom Scientific and
Humanware make the braille note takers at the same price as the price of
their note takers without braille. Voice sense, voice note and Packmate
without Braille display sell for around 3500. with braille option they sell close to 6500. Why that extra price for Braille? Is it acceptable at all to have these devices without braille as they are meant for the purpose of the
blind and it has been established that blind are more successful if they
learn braille? Even if they well their devices without Braille, is it
acceptable that they charge so much extra for their Braille note takers? I
would like some comments on that.
Now, you may say that it's okay charge me extra but give me a better braille
support but I am not sure if that will be acceptable to those who seem to
speak for all of us with regard to braille.
I am sorry I do not want to cause any debate about this issue on this list,
but when someone linked with blindness "speciality" devices and software
suggest that if apple has come in to screen reading support , it has to be
perfect, I find myself very skeptical about the added justiification about
survival of braille and literacy etc. True apple's braille support is not
perfect, but it will be wrong to assume that a dedicated note taker is going
to perform any better for you than an I device with a braille display.
braille note takers are improving but they are not still the paragons of
perfection. the makers of those devices claim that they are fully functional computers, those who have those note takers know that they are anything but.
They are still slow, clunky and love to hang from time to time. I would
suggest to schedule a meeting with an organization that sells these note
takers, and work on them for an hour or so. make sure to try their web
browser, and their capacity to play large books. and then decide about
purchasing a dedicated note taker.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:29 PM, denise avant <denise.av...@gmail.com>
wrote:

Hello all,
Sometimes I wonder if just because we ask Apple to provide better Braille
display  support, people think we are unnecessarily critical  of Apple. I
am forever grateful to Apple for building in accessibility to all of its
products. What Apple has done over the last six years is positively
wonderful. I never thought I’d be able to do so many things with a visual
device, and pay the same price as everyone else.  But that does not mean
that blind people cannot and should not point out a flaw and demand better
in a product. I listen to other podcasts having nothing to do with
accessibility and Apple, and the sighted community is not hesitant to say
when something needs to work better.
If one of the screen reader companies fails to provide proper Braille
display support in Windows, those of us, who use Windows are all over the
company. Requesting good Braille input and output on an Apple device is
not a ridiculous one. apple is the only one who can make the braille
display support better. I don’t know if Apple cannot or will not make the
Braille experience better. But voiceover belongs to apple, and I applaude
those who are willing to stand up and ask for better.
Jonathan talks about the children all of the time. But blind adults need
to be literate as well.
 Perhaps people have their own reasons for wanting to simply rely on
speech output. but I know there are times when people who cannot see well
enough to read the screen need to use Braille.
If someone has a hearing impairment in addition to blindness, then a
Braille display with an Apple device may be essential to using the
device.
Also, there may be times when you need to read and write Braille without
disturbing others or having the constant feedback of the speech.

On Jun 20, 2015, at 2:35 PM, TaraPrakash <taraprak...@gmail.com> wrote:

Yet, this is the majority opinion. Some people may be more worried about
braille which is a good thing to have as an option. and blind children
must have the option to learn braille. but somehow it's apple's
responsibility to keep the braille alive, is disingenuous in my opinion.
your 6,500 device is not fast or durable or efficient enough even for the
blind as apple devices have become.  those who work in the field of
assistive devices have their vvested interest in bringing in the braille
issue with some emotions about survival and identity.


Sent from my iPhone

On Jun 20, 2015, at 2:17 PM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote:

What I've found is that I don't need braille output at all. Please
understand this is *my* opinion and situation, and I kknow everyone's is
different. I'm not telling you what you should do, just offering my
observations, for what they're worth.

I used a notetaker in school and college, but slowly used it less and
less. Today, I use a Macbook Air and iPhone for everything. Sure,
sometimes it's not quite as efficient at certain things, but it more
than makes up for that in the app selection and raw horsepower. Plus,
the efficiency offered by Dropbox, iCloud, Handoff, and other cloud
services can't be forgotten; sure, typing your notes into a notetaker
might be a few seconds faster, but you'll have to spend more time
syncing up those notes to your computer later. With my setup, I can type
notes on either device and have them appear instantly on the other, and
with braille screen input or Mbraille on iOS, I can do it in braille.

A lot of it comes down to what you'll need and how you operate. As you
said, the central problem is that a display plus an iOS device is
cheaper, more modular, more powerful, and more versatile. However, a
dedicated notetaker is more efficient, for certain tasks, and can more
easily be used on the go or in noisy situations. Unfortunately, there's
no perfect solution to the problem right now.
On Jun 20, 2015, at 10:49 AM, Joe <jsoro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Jonathan,

Excellent blog post as always. Only, while I agree children are
crucial, adult professionals should receive equal consideration. I was
beginning to lean toward using a Braille display with an iDevice as a
viable solution, but your points give me pause. I need to be able to be
as productive as I can be using Braille on a dedicated notetaker. The
apps on the more sophisticated Braille Sense are great but still
limited. That means I could go for a compromise, purchasing one of the
awkward hybrids like the Braille Edge or VarioUltra, but it doesn’t
seem as though I could fully harness the horse power of the iDevice if
the interaction between display and iOS is efficient. Any further
thoughts welcomed. My point here isn’t to stir up a debate of
notetakers versus displays. I need to be productive on the move. A full
notetaker can be cost-prohibitive. A display doesn’t seem to be the
most efficient option. LOL I thought we’d made a little more progress.

Joe

--
Musings of a Work in Progress:
www.JoeOrozco.com/

Twitter: @ScribblingJoe

From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Jonathan Mosen
Sent: Saturday, June 20, 2015 1:32 AM
To: viphone@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: Replacing Braille Notetaker with iDevice

Hi Joe, I want to address your question about Braille input in iOS. In
my view it is not fit for purpose. I don't know what it is about
Braille input Apple doesn't get, whether the blind people they consult
with about these things aren't Braille users, or what the deal is. They
have the financial and technical resources to fix the issues if they
were of a mind to, but sadly it appears we are going to see another
major release of iOS without appropriately robust Braille input being
available.
As you know, some manufacturers have chosen to do Apple's work for
them, and work around the woeful Braille input in iOS by keeping text
in a buffer, then sending it to iOS all at once. I guess this is a
pragmatic response, but it also let's Apple off the hook. Apple is a
mainstream technology company, but they have also made the choice to be a screen reader company, and I don't believe they should be held to any
lesser standard than any other screen reader company.
They are receiving awards and praise and I don't begrudge them any of
it. It is well deserved. But those of us who are passionate about not
just the spread of Braille, but the very survival of Braille, need to
stand up and be counted.
There's no doubt that notetaker products can no longer keep up with the
phrenetic pace of technology, if they ever really could. So just in
terms of the range of things that can be done, getting an iThing is
probably a better bet than a notetaker. And some adults may well be
confident enough in their Braille skills to work around the
shortcomings in Apple's Braille input.
What really concerns me though is the kids, and in this case I believe
notetakers will have a place unless and until Apple get it together
when it comes to Braille input.
I am pasting below a blog post I wrote a couple of years ago called
"The Apple Braille Crisis, it's got to be fixed for the kids". While
some minor changes were made in iOS 8, it is mostly still relevant.
Here it is.
People from all walks of life, not just blind people, can get extremely
partisan about their technology preferences. Anything their team does
is unquestionably wonderful, while anything another company does is
rubbish, simply by virtue of the fact that it’s the other guys who did
it. If you criticise the company such people support, you’ve committed
heresy.
As blind people, I don’t believe we have the luxury of being so
childish. Unemployment is high. Misconceptions abound regarding how
capable we can be in the workplace, and in society as a whole. We need
to be open to all solutions, and where possible, use the best mix of
technology we can to be as productive, functional and self-reliant as
we can.
To be clear, I have enormous admiration for the way Apple has changed
the game in assistive technology. When they released VoiceOver in 2009,
I was concerned that Apple might do just enough to get people off its
back regarding the inaccessibility of the iPhone. But that has not been
the case. With every release, Apple has added tangible enhancements
such as alternative forms of input, innovative ways for us to use the
camera, and so much more. So Apple’s commitment to accessibility is
real, its ongoing, and it has earned enormous praise and respect.
Is there a “but” coming? Yes, there is, actually., because being
grateful for a product doesn’t mean we don’t have rights as paying
consumers to point out where a product falls short. But more than that,
if Apple’s innovations risk killing off a category of product, and the
literacy of our kids is threatened, we have a moral obligation to speak
up constructively and ask Apple to engage with us as a community about
fixing the issue.
The Internet is buzzing with reports of bugs in iOS 7. I’m not unduly
concerned about most of these, because I believe the majority of them
will come out in the wash. iOS 7 was a massive refactoring of the OS. I
hope that there’ll be fixes released steadily across the coming year.
However, I am deeply troubled by Apple’s ongoing apparent failure to
understand what constitutes Braille support of an appropriate quality.
We’re not talking bugs in this case, we’re talking a fundamental user
interface failure – a feature not fully fit for purpose.
Since Braille was introduced in iOS, it has supported contracted
Braille in English markets. This is a means by which space is saved,
and speed increased, by using a series of symbols and abbreviations.
When one reads contracted Braille in iOS, it works quite well. When one writes it, it is the worst implementation of contracted input I’ve ever
used on any device.
Since its inception, if you input a letter in contracted Braille which
would be the abbreviation for a word if surrounded by spaces, iOS
expands the word it represents if you pause for a short time before
inputting the next character. For example, write “p” and it will
quickly be expanded to the word “people”. If you are proofing a
document you’ve brailled and wish to insert a letter in the middle of a
word, you must preface the letter with a letter sign, dots 5-6, to
prevent it from being expanded. This is not in accordance with the
Braille code and is simply wrong.
Apple must surely know about this poor implementation. It’s been talked about in many forums, including an excellent presentation by Judy Dixon
at the CSUN Technology Conference on Persons with Disabilities. I, and
I’m sure others, have also raised it.
It’s also evident that Apple knows about the issues, because to its
credit, it appears to at least have made an effort to try and fix the
problem in iOS 7. It now offers an “Automatic Braille Translation”
toggle. This feature is so below par compared with most of the design
of all other VoiceOver features, that it must surely be the case that
Apple is getting no advice, or poor advice, from anyone actually using
Braille in their daily life.
When you toggle “Automatic Braille Translation” off, you can take as
long as you wish when inputting characters, and they’re not
back-translated. Isn’t that what we want? Well yes, it would appear to
be a step in the right direction. Except when you use it, you find that Braille is not readable on the display until you either press the space bar, or dots 4-5-cord. Why Apple believes this is acceptable, I have no
idea. Can you imagine a sighted person finding it acceptable in any
other scenario other than password entry, to not be able to look at
what they’re entering until they press “Space”?
But it’s worse than that. If you backspace over what you’ve typed, you
run into back-translation issues similar to those experienced when
automatic translation is set to on.
Additionally, having to press dots 4-5-cord after inserting a letter in
the middle of a word is counterintuitive, and again, an implementation
far more primitive than anything else that offers contracted input.
Apple seems to have implemented a pretty crude buffer, that is simply
dumped when you type one of two commands to empty it. That is not a
solution.
The Braille implementation in iOS does not meet the “it’s intuitive and
it just works” test that has been the hallmark of Apple products
including VoiceOver.
Now if it were just about us as Braille reading adults, I wouldn’t
bother writing this post. It would get on my nerves, but I’d continue
to work around it and just put it down to a bizarre, less than optimal
implementation. I’m not writing this for me. I’m not asking blind
people, and the world’s consumer organisations, to come together on
this for me or people like me. I’m writing this for the kids. It’s the
kids who matter.
If you’re a Braille user, you’ll have seen the implementation of Nemeth
in iOS 7. It’s there because Apple’s going after the education market,
particularly in the US. Good for Apple. I can see enormous benefit in a
kid being given an iPad and a Braille display for use at home and in
school. Don’t underestimate how mainstream tech can be a great way to
help blind kids blend in with sighted kids. Parents feel more
empowered, because the iPad is technology they know and understand, so
when the child gets in trouble at home, they can help out. Classroom
teachers in mainstream schools know what an iPad is as well and feel
similarly empowered.
But all of these benefits have to be secondary considerations to the
one that matters above all else, – equipping our kids with good Braille
literacy skills. Braille is their ticket to higher education. Braille
offers a greater chance of gainful employment. Braille is absolutely
critical, and Braille is not to be trifled with. Half-baked Braille
solutions are not appropriate for our kids when there’s a crisis in
getting Braille instruction to them already.
We should not expect our kids to have to learn to work-around Apple’s
poor implementation, we should expect Apple to fix its Braille.
For the last 20 years or so, blind kids have increasingly used
proprietary notetaker technology. I’ve no problem whatsoever with
technology moving on, and a category of product becoming obsolete. I
love the idea of investing in a good Braille display that will last you
for years, and upgrading the technology that drives the display on a
more regular basis. But that technology has to do the Braille
properly.
There are cost savings to be made by cash-strapped agencies who
purchase equipment for blind children, and that’s also why I’m writing
this post. I can see bean-counters concluding that the combination of
an iPad and a Braille display is a good solution for kids now. Many of
these purchasers are not Braille users themselves, and I believe we
have a duty of care to our kids to spread the word that Apple is not
there yet. It is trying, and should be applauded for doing so, but
still, it’s not there.
You will remember the huge backlash caused by the initial release of
Apple Maps in iOS 6. In terms of fitness for purpose, Apple Maps was
far superior at release than Braille is now. The only difference is
that Braille affects a tiny fraction of Apple’s user-base, not hundreds
of millions of people.
Lest anyone think I’m whining without a solution, I actually know a lot
about this subject, having worked as a product manager with a range of
products that use contracted Braille. I have a good feel for where
Apple has got it wrong and what it might do to fix it, while not of
course being familiar with the VoiceOver code. But I am absolutely
confident that it’s fixable. Let’s not forget, Apple invented a way for
blind people to make effective use of touch screens. Apple gave us
unimagined access to taking photos. It is certainly not beyond Apple to
look at best practice and figure this one out, because unlike some of
the other things it’s done, the solutions already exist.
If this poor-quality support had been offered to us by an assistive
technology company, we’d have jumped all over it long before now. But
given that Apple develops screen readers, that makes it both a
mainstream technology company, and an assistive technology company. We
should hold it to no less a standard.
Having outlined the problem, here’s what I think needs to happen.
Typically, I’d suggest that Apple needs to engage with the community
with a view to fixing these issues for the sake of our kids, but that’s
not really been its style. It is secretive by nature. In that case
then, it needs to buy the expertise to make Braille truly viable in the
education market.
As Braille readers, we need to politely articulate the problems to
Apple, and let Apple know we consider it important that they are
fixed.
Consumer organisations should do what they’ve done so many times
before, and focus on their unity when it comes to Braille issues. A
broad-coalition of consumers, educators and parents needs to ensure
this issue is not allowed to drop.
And finally, no one in charge of any purse strings should consider it
an appropriate solution to give a kid an iPad in the classroom if
they’re a Braille user. If purchasers want to move away from the
blindness notetaker, and I get that, a laptop and Braille display is a
far better solution in terms of Braille reliability and consistency.
I’ll be the first to cheer loudly, and sing Apple’s praises, if it
fixes its Braille. And I’ll continue to praise all it has done right,
which I often do in media interviews and blindness tech forums. But
please, for the sake of the kids, lets do what we need to do to
advocate for good quality Braille on Apple devices. We have a duty to
the next generation to do no less.
I’ve done what I can as an individual to make Apple aware of these
failings, but clearly, we need to do more to help it gain an
appreciation of why this is so important.

Jonathan Mosen
Mosen Consulting
Blindness technology eBooks, tutorials and training
http://Mosen.org

On 20/06/2015, at 9:24 am, Joe <jsoro...@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi, I'm curious to hear from people who have replaced their Braille
notetaker with an iDevice. I've been toying with the idea of investing
in a
U2 for reading books, taking notes and performing similar quick
tasks.

Questions:

1. I've heard there are displays that let you type text and then send
to the
iDevice in one burst. I don't understand the mechanics of this, but
what are
the displays you know that do this?

2. Is Braille input in iOS as dreadful as some people have made it out
to
be? I don't mind learning various keystrokes, but I do mind delays in
transmition.

3. Is there a means to read BRF in iOS?

4. What 32-cell display would you personally recommend?

Thanks guys for any help.

Joe

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Twitter: @ScribblingJoe


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