I think if you read Neil's original post, it'll become clear. Neil's
post is still at the bottom of this thread.
Apple's policy is that there are no refunds for App Store purchases. In
the past, blind customers have been pretty successful in getting refunds
from Apple for apps that turned out not to be accessible. There have
been more and more reported cases of Apple not granting such refunds
lately and sticking to their no refund policy. Neil is asking for this
refund policy to be put in place and for Apple to do more with
developers to ensure their apps are accessible. Again, don't let me put
words in Neil's mouth and go ahead and read his original message to the
list.
There have been other discussions about some of the wording used in
Neil's post. For example, he said he was patronized to but others have
felt that they didn't see any evidence of this.
On 09/11/2013 02:11 PM, Patrick Neazer wrote:
Hello Neil, Joseph, and all:
I have been following this thread since its inception and I must confess I am a
bit confused by the arc of the conversation. It began with a judgement
pertaining to a policy which may or may not exist addressing the refund of
money for app purchases. then, a turn was taken to patronizing activity or not.
then there was an appeal to the upstanding credentials of an individual and
then … well … I lost the trail.
I am not attempting to take sides or a stand. I am truly attempting to
understand what is actually occurring and what the call to action is. so, in an
attempt to clarify my obvious unclear view here is my question … does Apple
have a stated policy or procedure which is clearly stated and viewable by the
public governing refunds for app purchases and does there policy outline any
unique exemptions based on pick the criteria of choice? If that information
could be presented as quickly as links to write to apple requesting policy
changes and adaptations to business practices that would go a long way I
believe to clearing up my apparent confusion and sharpening the discussion in
the minds of other members of the community who may be experiencing the same
confusion I am experiencing. Of course, I may be the only one confused and if
so, anyone reading this whom has been following the thread is free to disregard
anything written above.
Thank you to anyone who reads this and responds in a constructive manner and
high fives to all those who take up the mantle of improving the tools which
make the lives of persons with disabilities easier to navigate.
Take good care and I wish you enough.
Patrick
On Sep 11, 2013, at 1:46 PM, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> wrote:
Well, the suggestion I posted has nothing to do with you personally.
<Smile>. it's a general, unbiased suggestion, and had anyone else made it, I
would have suggested the same thing. It was another lister who turned this
into a bit of an ad hominem discussion.
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <for...@talknav.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 11:22 AM
Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Joseph,
As Sieghard has said, I'm not one for such things, and have been a positive
advocate of our community online and off line for many, many years now… I
would recommend that you check out my web-site; neilbarnfather.com for some
information and this might explain a little more about myself and my work.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
Talks List Administrator
Twitter @neilbarnfather
TalkNav is a Nuance, Code Factory and Sendero dealer, as well as an Apple
iOS, Macintosh and Android accessibility specialist. For all your
accessible phone, PDA and GPS related enquiries visit www.talknav.com
URL: - www.talknav.com
e-mail: - serv...@talknav.com
Phone: - +44 844 999 4199
On 11 Sep 2013, at 17:13, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> wrote:
Very smart suggestion. Let's say we all jump on this bandwagon (once
again),
and in the end we discover that whoever the original person this happened
to
was very nasty and demanding to the Apple customer service employees;
hence
the poor service. We're all going to be very embarrassed and not likely to
take this issue up again in the future. We first need proof of a pattern
of
poor service and not just some single person's complaint.
Joseph
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lisa belville" <missktlab1...@frontier.com>
To: <viphone@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 7:59 AM
Subject: Re: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
Hi. Is there any way you could share a letter showing how the Apple
people
were patronizing/unhelpful in this regard? I understand the frustration
of
not getting a refund for something inaccessible and how a clueless rep
makes
this all the more annoying, but IMO there's a difference between
politely/patiently conveying a policy and being patronizing. Obviously,
you
can take out any names in this letter, but it would be good to see an
example of this attitude. Could it possibly be this particular rep's
issue
and not necessarily one of Apple itself? I'm referring to the
patronizing/unsympathetic attitude and not the policy itself.
Lisa
There is a fine line between genius and insanity and that difference is a
paycheck!
Lisa Belville
missktlab1...@frontier.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neil Barnfather - TalkNav" <for...@talknav.com>
To: <macvisionar...@googlegroups.com>; <viphone@googlegroups.com>; "The
Accessible Phones Discussion List" <blindpho...@mosenexplosion.com>
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 8:58 AM
Subject: Apple App Store & Refunds for inaccessible Apps
The below should prove a concern to all Apple accessibility feature users,
and I would urge as many of you who can do so, to please write to Apple
yourselves to express your concern along the same lines where possible…
(accessibil...@apple.com).
For years now Apple has led the way in accessibility standards and
application of methods in interacting with all of its product range.
Internationally within many disability arenas Apple is celebrated as the
defacto standard and is widely acknowledged as users preferred platform
for
persons with accessibility issues.
Whether or not the App Store had an unofficial policy towards customers
with
accessibility needs or not, is unknown to me. What I am aware of is that
where I've bought Apps which turn out not to be accessible, Apple App
Store
has always been prompt to refund the purchase immediately without
question.
Since Apple do not enforce accessibility standards, nor in anyway
whatsoever
offer a method of a disabled user to know whether or not an App is, or is
not, accessible in advance of purchase, this seemed to be a most
reasonable
compromise.
However, in correspondence over the past week with Apple iTunes support
staff via e-mail in relation to an App I have purchased which is
inaccessible, Apple's stance has been both surprising and frankly highly
dismissive of our needs and vulnerability when using Apple's App Store.
I have been point blank refused a refund upon this occasion, with staff
suggesting that I could leave a review for the App which others could
read,
and or write to the developer. Whilst I understand that the second
suggestion may illicit a positive response, and sometimes it does… In many
instances developers haven't even heard of Voice Over let alone understand
what it does and how they aught to address compliance with Apple's
Accessibility API's.
Of course, the best approach would be for Apple to make compliance with
its
Accessibility API's a requirement for all new Apps being approved to the
App
Store, indeed a range of other options would also work, such as; a
discount
on the 30% cut that Apple takes for compliant Apps, a penalty higher fee
(35% etc) for those that do not comply and perhaps indicating with a
marker
in the App store which Apps do meet the requirements.
Since Apple do none of these, despite so publicly professing to up holding
and supporting some of the most well implemented accessibility innovation
and support seen in the industry, it seemed like a fair compromise that
Apple voluntarily and without complication offered a refund to customers
who
had accessibility needs where an App proved to be inaccessible.
The situation now, though is that Apple is refusing in an uncompromising
and
frankly shocking way to refund such purchases, with patronising and
unsympathetic suggestions as to how we, as blind users, go about reviewing
Apps etc.
I would ask that Apple firstly developed a robust policy in this regard,
and
secondly, reviews options as to improving the compliance uptake of
developers within their iOS and Mac App Stores.
So that I can convey your response to the ViPhone, Macvisionaries and
other
Apple Accessibility user forums promptly, I would sincerely appreciate
your
earliest feedback and response on this issue.
Yours kindly.
Regards,
Neil Barnfather
http://www.NeilBarnfather.com
--
Christopher (CJ)
chaltain at Gmail
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the "VIPhone" Google
Group.
Post a new message to VIPhone by emailing viphone@googlegroups.com.
Search and view the VIPhone archives by visiting
http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/.
Reach the VIPhone owner and moderators by emailing
viphone+ow...@googlegroups.com.
Unsubscribe and leave VIPhone by emailing viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
More VIPhone group options can be found by visiting
http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
---
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
