I appologize for posting something off topic. I figured since the Mac also uses VoiceOver and since I put the focus on the Maccording rather than the PC it would be ok. I guess not. Oh well. You live and learn.
Haya Simkin & guide dog Pammy Sent from my iPhone On 19 Jun 2014, at 07:28, Sieghard Weitzel <siegh...@live.ca> wrote: Hi Christopher, I guess Raul and Cara must be not paying a lot of attention these days, I was wondering when somebody would point out that this is actually pretty much off-topic for this list and if anything it should be asked on a Mac list and/or PC list. Apart from that I have been reading all these messages with a growing smile on my face, I really think one of these days we should have a Viphone convention and we'll hand out a pair of boxing gloves to everybody along with the registration and include a mud pit in the middle of the convention room... what fun that would be! Keep it up guys, maybe Raul will eventuall get around to reading this and put half a dozen of the worst trouble makers on moderation for their efforts. Regards, Sieghard -----Original Message----- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Christopher Chaltain Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 5:40 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Mac and pc It would seem to me that if you're going to post such a question to an iPhone list, you're going to get a lot of opinions in favor of the Mac, and rightfully so. Hopefully this person is also posting this question on PC oriented or platform neutral lists where you might get some more opinions on the flip side of this coin. I just hope I'm not on any of those other lists. BTW, this doesn't seem very on topic to me, at least not for an iPhone list. I know you can use a PC or Mac to interact with your iPhone, but that argument would pretty much make it pointless to even have a topic for a list. > On 06/18/2014 06:49 PM, Joseph FreeTech wrote: > I don't get it, opinions were sought, but one can't seem to post an opinion > unless it supports the majority of the list--isn't this known as group > think? I read the bottom of my messages and found this text but no more: > "members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any > questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a > member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators > directly rather than posting on the list itself." > > Remember people, this person John Panarese claims to be a certified Apple > instructor of the blind. What will happen when you hire this person and > convey an opinion different than his? Looks like this person can't have a > civilized discussion without falling into a fit of rage and or trying to > berate another into submission. > > And by the way, what is a list troll? ...Rhetorical question, don't answer > that--I'll look it up. <Smile>. > > Joseph > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Panarese" <jpanar...@gmail.com> > To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> > Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:39 PM > Subject: Re: Mac and pc > > > Ah. List troll. I get it now. There's always one in the crowd. I > thought so, and thanks for proving my point. > > > Take Care > > John Panarese > jpanar...@gmail.com > > > > On Jun 18, 2014, at 7:35 PM, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> Judging from your post--you must be a pleasant and patient individual to >> work with. >> >> How about you stick to the discussion and try to restrain yourself. >> >> I thought this Apple verses Windows and "apple boy" thing was something >> teenagers indulged in, but it appears to be a very prevalent mindset >> regardless of age. >> >> Joseph >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "John Panarese" <jpanar...@gmail.com> >> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> >> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:30 PM >> Subject: Re: Mac and pc >> >> >> Talk about a foolishly arrogant answer. I love when people make asses >> of >> themselves on public lists. When you really know what people in education >> actually do as far as producing professional papers on a Mac, let me know. >> I happen to work with a few and you obviously are not aware. Do some >> research before you make uninformed statements. >> >> >> >> Take Care >> >> John D. Panarese >> Director >> Mac for the Blind >> Tel, (631) 724-4479 >> Email, j...@macfortheblind.com >> Website, http://www.macfortheblind.com >> >> APPLE CERTIFIED SUPPORT PROFESSIONAL FOR MAC OSX 10.7 LION and 10.8 >> Mountain >> Lion >> >> AUTHORIZED APPLE STORE BUSINESS AFFILIATE >> >> MAC and iOS VOICEOVER TRAINING AND SUPPORT >> >> >> >> >> On Jun 18, 2014, at 7:16 PM, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> >> wrote: >> >>> I understand now... I forgot to take into consideration the vast >>> difference >>> in demands from various fields of study. Studying physical ed, dance, or >>> music will not demand the use of MiniTab, SAS, SPSS, etc., which also >>> explains why some correctly and confidently convey their successful use >>> of >>> Mac in a university setting. >>> >>> Joseph >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "May McDonald Homuth" <m...@canadianlynx.ca> >>> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> >>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 4:06 PM >>> Subject: Re: Mac and pc >>> >>> >>> Yes, the mac does just fine for school purposes. I use mine just fine. >>> >>> And I am a blind user and rely on voiceover. >>> >>> May, still waiting to hear from GDB *slow pokes* >>> May, still waiting to hear from GDB *slow pokes* >>> www.canadianlynx.ca >>> m...@canadianlynx.ca >>> >>> On Jun 18, 2014, at 6:37 PM, Joseph FreeTech <joseph.freet...@gmail.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> I have no doubt the Mac can be used by blind users, and it is probably >>>> easier to learn as it has been engineered from ground up to be so easy >>>> to >>>> use that children and the elderly can use it. The question here is >>>> whether >>>> or not the Mac can be successfully used in a university environment to >>>> conduct and produce research including producing very strictly formatted >>>> and >>>> complex documents. I'm sure sighted people can do this on a Mac, but >>>> we're >>>> talking a Mac and VoiceOver. >>>> >>>> Joseph >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>> From: "John Panarese" <jpanar...@gmail.com> >>>> To: <viphone@googlegroups.com> >>>> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2014 2:21 PM >>>> Subject: Re: Mac and pc >>>> >>>> >>>> Please. I've been around PCs for nearly twenty years and used every >>>> flavor of Windows up to 8. I have a desktop and laptop here running >>>> Windows. I can surely agree with what Alex asserts from personal >>>> experience >>>> and from having worked with dozens of clients when I was teaching >>>> Windows >>>> over the twenty years in the business. >>>> The Mac is a far less stressful and more friendlier environment to work >>>> and teach clients by far. >>>> >>>> >>>> Take Care >>>> >>>> John Panarese >>>> jpanar...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jun 18, 2014, at 5:15 PM, Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Um, really? I used Windows for over ten years, using both Jaws and >>>>> NVDA, >>>>> so I have extensive personal experience and am not making anything up. >>>>> Plus, nearly everyone who I know of who switches to the Mac finds it to >>>>> be >>>>> smoother. They comment about how it never locks up, random graphics >>>>> don't >>>>> spuriously get read (I'm looking at you, Jaws for Windows), and so on. >>>>> If >>>>> you've never had Windows freeze up on you, then you're really lucky. >>>>> Hop >>>>> on over to the Macvisionaries email list or the AppleVis forum and ask >>>>> why >>>>> people switch to the Mac, though, and I can promise that lack of >>>>> freezes, >>>>> lock-ups, blue screens, and other problems will be at the top of the >>>>> list. >>>>> On Jun 18, 2014, at 4:20 PM, todd patkus <tpat...@shellworld.net> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, Alex. You are mistaken this time. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have been in the tech field for many years! Therefore, I have seen >>>>>> enough of all! >>>>>> >>>>>> Your statement below proves invalid. >>>>>> >>>>>> I have not had any problems with PC at all. >>>>>> >>>>>> You do not have enough proof to prove what you believe! >>>>>> >>>>>> No arguments here. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks. >>>>>> >>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> From: Alex Hall <mehg...@icloud.com >>>>>>> To: viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 15:59:50 -0400 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: Mac and pc >>>>>> >>>>>>> There is a lot more to it than that, and your assertion that Mac >>>>>> software is more expensive is simply not true. Pages, Keynote, and >>>>>> Numbers are all free on new Macs, while it costs at least $100 >>>>>> (usually >>>>>> more) for similar applications on Windows. The Mac includes the App >>>>>> Store, so restoring apps to a new or freshly reformatted Mac is as >>>>>> easy >>>>>> as signing in and choosing the apps you want to re-download. No >>>>>> codes, >>>>>> license keys, activations, or anything like you deal with with paid >>>>>> software on Windows. Also, VoiceOver on the Mac has never frozen on >>>>>> me, >>>>>> and when it crashes (which is rare) it restarts itself and is talking >>>>>> within five seconds. Windows screen readers all have stability >>>>>> problems >>>>>> or other oddities that make them harder to deal with, and Windows >>>>>> itself >>>>>> loves to lock up on me. On the Mac, even if an app freezes, VO simply >>>>>> reports that app as "busy" and the rest of the system is unaffected, >>>>>> whereas all of Windows locks up in a similar situation. Yes, Macs are >>>>>> more expensive, but they last longer, are usually lighter and smaller, >>>>>> and are upgraded longer. Plus, they tend to hold their resale value >>>>>> much >>>>>> better than some Wal-Mart special laptop, so if you want to sell your >>>>>> Macbook later you can probably get more for it. >>>>>> >>>>>>> I encourage you to visit www.applevis.com and go to the page for >>>>>> new Mac users. I have a couple articles there about the pros and cons >>>>>> of >>>>>> the Mac, getting started with basic apps, and so on, and others have >>>>>> helpful articles and podcasts. This should help you get a better idea >>>>>> of >>>>>> what is involved in switching. The Macvisionaries list >>>>>> (macvisionaries+subscr...@googlegroups.com) is a great resource, but >>>>>> be >>>>>> warned that it is pretty high-traffic. >>>>>> >>>>>>> For the most part, Pages and MS Word are pretty compatible >>>>>> nowadays, Complex formatting might not transfer well, but the basics >>>>>> (fonts, margins, spacing, etc) should. This particular issue is not >>>>>> specific to accessibility, though, so I'm sure plenty of articles are >>>>>> out >>>>>> there that talk about it in detail. >>>>>>> On Jun 18, 2014, at 3:42 PM, todd patkus <tpat...@shellworld.net> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Haya, >>>>>> >>>>>>>> I remind you that there are PROS and CONS in both. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Neither can be perfect as you would like them to be. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Macs are popular here, but PC are still used. Macs cost even >>>>>> more than PC does. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> For software, PC has even more software for less money while >>>>>> software for Mac are fewer and cost more. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> For me, I would rather go for PC since I am most familiar with, >>>>>> and it is by far easier to deal with. I care less about Macs. Not >>>>>> the >>>>>> top priority.. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> The con for PC is, a lot of folks dislike Windows 8. I do not >>>>>> bother that one; I go with Windows 7. That is it. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> Todd >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>>>> From: Haya Simkin & guide dog Pammy <hayasim...@gmail.com >>>>>>>>> To: "viphone@googlegroups.com" <viphone@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> Date sent: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 22:10:04 +0300 >>>>>>>>> Subject: Mac and pc >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hi folks, >>>>>>>>> I'm trying to decide whether I should get a Mac laptop or a pc. >>>>>>>> I am fairly sure I want a Mac, but I want to know how well the >>>>>> Mac can cope with a document that was written and formatted on a pc >>>>>> and >>>>>> more importantly, vice versa. Macs are very uncommon here and I have >>>>>> to >>>>>> be able to turn in homework for my university classes. Any info would >>>>>> be >>>>>> greatly appreciated! >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Haya Simkin & guide dog Pammy >>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>> viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>>>> default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of >>>>>> this >>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please >>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the >>>>>> list >>>>>> itself. The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, >>>>>>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>> viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>>>> default. >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>> or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from >>>>>> it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> Have a great day, >>>>>>> Alex Hall >>>>>>> mehg...@icloud.com >>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>> viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by >>>>>> default. >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>> or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the >>>>>> Google Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>> send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If >>>>>> you >>>>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>>>>> you >>>>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>>> or >>>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The >>>>>> archives >>>>>> for this list can be searched at >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "VIPhone" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an >>>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> Have a great day, >>>>> Alex Hall >>>>> mehg...@icloud.com >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>>>> you >>>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>>>> or >>>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The >>>>> archives >>>>> for this list can be searched at >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>> Groups >>>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>> an >>>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>> list. >>>> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have >>>> any >>>> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel >>>> that >>>> a >>>> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this >>>> list >>>> can be searched at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>>> for this list can be searched at >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups >>>> "VIPhone" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an >>>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>> list. >>> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have >>> any >>> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that >>> a >>> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >>> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this >>> list >>> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >>> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >>> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >>> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >>> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >>> for this list can be searched at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "VIPhone" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. >> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that >> a >> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >> directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this >> list >> can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone >> list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you >> have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you >> feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives >> for this list can be searched at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "VIPhone" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. The archives for this list can be searched at http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "VIPhone" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
