Bill, congratulations on your (soon to be) Mac! If you need help with it, there are a couple email lists, and www.applevis.com <http://www.applevis.com/> has a page with content for those new to the Mac.
Everyone else: I believe what Raul was saying is that, with every update, bugs happen. This list, AppleVis, and other resources exist so users can know what bugs to expect before they upgrade, and can decide whether or not to proceed. In the case of Pablo, I think Raul was saying that the same thing happens every year: he decries Apple for their lack of accessibility support, says that he'd like to switch to Android, then upgrades his iOS version and says the same things over again. Of course, this list is for people to get help and share knowledge, but messages simply stating that Apple isn't doing enough and isn't worth the poster's money don't contribute to that knowledge or support. As to accessibility bugs, yes, they exist, I'm not saying they don't. Yes, it's usually best to wait for the x.1 version of a major new release. However, to think that accessibility is the only area affected is simply wrong. Many mainstream publications have been saying that there are more bugs in iOS8 than in any previous release, and these are bugs affecting the sighted world. Apple is even getting hit with a class action lawsuit over its refusal to fix certain MacBook Pros that all show the same kind of video card problems. My point is that a fast upgrade cycle, like what Apple has in place, is great for business and for pushing forward, but bugs get missed for sighted and blind users alike. Saying that Apple isn't committed to accessibility by pointing to iOS8's bugs is like saying that Apple doesn't care about wifi users by pointing to the ongoing wifi problems in iOS8. It is also to ignore the braille input system, direct touch typing, Alex voice, Hebrew braille support, expanded braille options, totally overhauled Zoom, fully accessible new mainstream features, and all the other work that went into iOS8's accessibility. > On Nov 27, 2014, at 12:07 PM, Bill Gallik <[email protected]> wrote: > > I for one, will not ever install any future versions of X.0 where "X" might > be "9," "10," "11" or whatever future version releases may be forthcoming > until most accessibility bugs are resolved -- I hope to live long enough to > see iOS 40.???! > > The disruptions I experienced in moving from 7.1.2 to 8.0 and beyond has been > quite frustrating. Prudence dictates that I (and other blind individuals) > take a much more cautious approach in upgrading to new iOS versions and I > would advise all here to exercise such caution. > > That said, I still prefer Apple's business model over that of competing > technology platforms. I for one am quite tired of the exorbitant fees to > maintain software licenses to permit me to use a technology framework that > seemingly completely disregards the customer investment - yes indeed, I am > referring to the cavalier attitude Windows manifests and the charges to > retain JAWS. I do agree with Pablo that Apple sorely dropped the > accessibility ball in the case of the 8.0 version release; but unlike Pablo > I'm confident that Apple is striving to "make it right." I intend to buy a > Mac very soon and bid a fond farewell to Microsoft and Freedom Scientific > because, if my iPhone experience is any indication, Apple does care about > protecting their customers' investments. > ---- > Holland's Boy, Bill > - "Always acknowledge a fault. This will throw those in authority off their > guard and give you an opportunity to commit more." > - US Humorist, Mark Twain (1835 - 1910) > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pablo Morales" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 8:19 AM > Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > > Hi Raul. > In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the > messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for apple. > Are you owner of apple? > No, right? > Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the > accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in this email > list. What is your problem? > That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great? > No, it is not great, and you know that. > That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices, not > allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is not > fair, is not good? > Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true. > That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8 had, and > after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people saying > that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks like he > works with this matter, and has knowledge. > What is your problem if after read the post in the list, and after see that > I wasn't able to do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs > 7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated? > This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is > happy with apple? > No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about > accessibility in apple devices, right? > Talk about accessibility is everything, good and bad things. > You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government, > talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you lose > your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because of > that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with freedom. > Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want. > I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple, and I > got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with the IOs, and > also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling the > Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you or > any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before. > And by the way, you didn't do anything about it. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Raul A. Gallegos > Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1 > > Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm seriusly > thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps up. > > > >> On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't >> restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2 installed in my phone, because IOs8 7.1.2 >> is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to install IOs 8, >> liking or doesn't liking, I have to. >> But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of >> treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this kind >> of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their previous >> mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same mistakes. a >> Again, it was my last apple device. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Sieghard Weitzel >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth >> keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case you >> wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Pablo Morales >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> Hi Sieghard. >> Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4, years >> ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some times >> the keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard >> doesn't appear, so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type, or >> to make the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was doing, and >> try again. Other times, if my iPhone gets the lock screen, and I try to >> deactivate the lock screen using my BT, it just doesn't respond, but it >> doesn't happen always, it happen some times. >> Other times, if I am trying to type the info in several text boxes, with the >> bt is no way to jump and type several text boxes. I type in the first a few >> boxes, but later the bt keyboard stop working. >> It is very bad, because my bt was working perfectly in IOs7.1.2. >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Sieghard Weitzel >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:58 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> Hi Pablo, >> >> I don't use a bluetooth keyboard a lot, but I think most of the problems >> were fixed. Anyhow, it's not like you didn't know what you were getting >> into, especially the issue with bluetooth keyboards and braille devices has >> been discussed exhaustively. It might help if you more specifically explain >> what exactly your problems are. I do assume you know that you have to turn >> quick nav off in order to enter text? >> >> Regards, >> Sieghard >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Pablo Morales >> Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:10 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> Hi Sieghard >> Yes, I guess that apple did so. I am getting a lot of problems with the >> Bluetooth keyboard, and I need to use the Bluetooth keyboard, a lot! >> I am noticing a little bit slow my phone, I am not talking about how voice >> over works, I am talking about how my iPhone respond to the events. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Sieghard Weitzel >> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:14 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> The 2-finger double tap works I would say 90% or so of the time. Every now >> and then it will start playing whatever audio I was last listening to, >> usually Audible, instead of answering the call. In that case I just 2-finger >> double tap again to stop the audio and then double tap the accept button to >> answer the call. Like I said, it happens rarely, but it still does happen >> from time to time. >> >> Pablo, I hope Apple put a few extra bugs into your copy of iOS 8.1.1 just >> because we all love to hear you complain *smile*. >> >> >> Regards, >> Sieghard >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Neal Ewers >> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 11:04 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> I can double tap to answer all calls. >> >> Neal >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf >> Of Pablo Morales >> Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:51 PM >> To: viphone >> Subject: starting with IOs 8.1.1 >> >> Hi all. >> Well, I love to make troubles, and because of that, I tried IOs 8.1.1, to >> see what I can say about this release. >> Well guys, I thought that it will be so bad, but, no. IOs 8.1.1 is not too >> bad, I just found a few instability some times, and the most bugs that IOs >> 8.1 had are fixed. Just right now I am missing answering phone calls with 2 >> fingers, double tab, but I see that we have to do a double tab on th accept >> button. Any how, IOs 8.1.1 is not so bad, and I am starting to be exploring >> this IOs. >> Just be ready guys, because I will be making complain about it soon. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the viphone list. >> All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you have any >> questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a >> member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators >> directly rather than posting on the list itself. 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