Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Charles Rivard Thu, 27 Nov 2014 16:17:46 -0800

You could have continued using 7.1.2. Once you upgraded from that, though,beyond a certain time, you could not downgrade. Instructions on how todowngrade, when it was still possible to do so, were given on this list. Iknow. I saw them. Not doing so during the grace period was your fault, notApple's. Upgrading when you knew about the bugs was also your fault, notApple's. Nobody held a gun to your head and forced you to upgrade. You didit knowing the risks. Now, start living with your decision and stop sendingyour complaints to us, please?

---

Be positive! When it comes to being defeated, if you think you're finished,you! really! are! finished!----- Original Message -----From: "Pablo Morales" <[email protected]>

To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:09 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1



No Kelly. You are wrong.
I had  to update my iPhone. You know why?

Because the dictator apple, doesn't allow me to restore my iPhone, with theIOs 7.1.2 that I have stored in my computer. I couldn't restore my iPhonewhen I was using IOs 7.1.2, because ... guess. Apple doesn't allow to do it.After I discovered that, and after I sent many emails to apple,accessibility. I asked here about IOs 8.1.1, and one of the more trustablesource here, said. IOs 8.1.1 has still bugs, even though I think it isgreat.So, I didn't have choices, or update, or use a phone who was getting to muchproblems. Because of that I needed to restore my iPhone.



-----Original Message-----

From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On BehalfOf Kelly Pierce

Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:34 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo,

In the United States, Europe, and in the rest of the free western
world,we have immense amounts of political freedom. We do have
corporate dictators though. Apple’s policy of not allowing users to
revert to a previous iOS version is well known. Upgrading to a new iOS
version is essentially irreversible. The guys at Cool Blind Tech put
out a warning shortly before the release of iOS 8 telling voiceover
users not to upgrade. I posted two reviews of iOS 8.1 and iOS 8.1.1 on
the iPhone 5 from highly reputable sources.  Both reviews strongly
recommended that people wait until another version to receive better
performance and fewer hassles. The folks here and on AppleVis both
stated that iOS 8.1.1 left many accessibility issues unresolved.
Despite all of this you upgraded anyway.

The flipside of freedom is personal responsibility.  At this point,
you should accept your decision to upgrade, take responsibility to
learn the workarounds for some of the access bugs and move on. Apple
is not responsible for your needs and decisions. You are.

Kelly

On 11/27/14, Kerri G <[email protected]> wrote:

And, if I may add, since we will commence not listening to you, what will
happen if you have real issues, Pablo, you will not obtain assistance, you
cry foul too many times.

On Nov 27, 2014, at 2:21 PM, Shawn Krasniuk <[email protected]> wrote:

Well Pablo, do you think Apple is listening or will listen to your
negative messages? I don't think so. It's the same thing with this list.
You've been saying the same crap since iOS 6 that Apple doesn't give a
damn about us and that they're breaking accessibility with every major
release. And just like Apple, we're going to start not to listen. I've

said it before and I'll say it again. iOS has bugs. There's no doubtabout

that. But honestly, the cool new features outweigh the bugs. So I think I
can say for most people that Apple must be doing something right if iOS 8
is enjoyable. Can they improve? Yeah sure. But messages like this bashing
Apple will never get us anywhere.

Shawn
Sent From My White MacBook

On Nov 27, 2014, at 1:50 PM, Pablo Morales <[email protected]>
wrote:

Raul, I don't want to be arguing with you , really it is not helpful for
the list. But I have to clarify that my porpoise is , advice and help
everybody, even me.

I don't know if you remember, since I started writing emails to thelist,regarding IOs problems, that I have been saying, that if we arecustomers

of apple, we should push apple to do a better job. It is my porpoise. If

we stay quiet, apple will not improve the quality of IOs. Do youRemember

IOs 6?, it had some bugs, remember Ios 7? It had more bugs than IOs 6,
and look IOs 8, the worse IOs that the customers has seen. Looks like
every year the quality is lower, and lower, and lower.
Why is it happening?
Easy, because apple is not feeling that they need to improve the IOs
quality.
A few days I read on the list, someone saying that apple is doing a good
job, because in a few weeks, they have release 2 updates of IOs 8. I
don't see this issue on the same way. If they have to fix things, it is
because there were things to be fix. Again Raul, if we always are happy
with whatever apple is doing, always they will decrease the quality.
My advice to everybody, is write to apple, call them, make a lot of
noise, then they will take care about what are the problems of their
customers, but been good boys, quiet, they will not feel the need to
improve anything.
I hope that you see now what is my porpoise writing not positive
messages.
Pablo tired of IOs bugs.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of RobH.
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 11:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

I think he means, he usually means:-

if it's not advice that is useful or helps someone, then it serves no
real

purpose on the list. There have been timely warnings about bugs tosave

a
few falling over them,  that at least was useful.
He encourages us to ask ourselves - does this add to the knowledge
presented
so far.

I think that about summarises it,  hope I don't go getting flack for
saying
so.

Rh.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Pablo Morales" <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, November 27, 2014 2:19 PM
Subject: RE: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1


Hi Raul.
In the rules of the list, I don't see anywhere anything saying that the
messages posted to the list, should be something that is positive for
apple.
Are you owner of apple?
No, right?
Ok, so if I am in disagreement with the way how apple is handling the

accessibility, something that affect me, you, and everybody in thisemail


list. What is your problem?
That my emails are not saying that IOs 8.x is great?
No, it is not great, and you know that.

That the way how apple is pushing everybody to upgrade their devices,not


allowing to reinstall the IOs that the people has already installed is
not
fair, is not good?
Well, Raul, maybe it is something that is not positive, but it is true.

That IOs 8.1.1, after I asked here if they fixed the bugs that IOs 8had,


and after read emails saying that there are some bugs, and other people
saying that IOs 8.1.1 is great, for example Sieghard. Person that looks
like
he works with this matter, and has knowledge.
What is your problem  if after read the post in the list, and after see
that
I wasn't able to  do a restore of my iPhone with the same version of IOs

7.1.2 that I had installed, I feel me frustrated?
This email list is only for people who works for apple, or people who is

happy  with apple?
No, I don't think so, I understand that this email list is to talk about

accessibility in apple devices, right?
Talk about accessibility  is everything, good and bad things.
You remind me my country. In my country, or you support the government,
talking very good about the government, or you become in nothing, you
lose
your job, and you don't receive any support from any authority. Because
of
that I left my country, and now I am living in a great country, with
freedom.
Any way, as owner of this email list, you can do what ever you want.
I am very frustrated with apple, with IOs, with the policies of apple,
and I

got the freedom to say that I am getting a lot of problems with theIOs,


and also I have the freedom to be mad with the way how apple is handling
the
Updates. Or to be mad for the low quality of IOs. I am not insulting you
or
any body here, aas other members of the list has done against me before.
And by the way, you didn't do anything about it.




-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Raul A. Gallegos
Sent: Wednesday, November 26, 2014 7:01 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: moderator warning - Re: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Pablo. Every release you go on and on about the same sob story. I'm
seriusly
thinking of revoking your posting privileges on this list if this keeps
up.

On Nov 26, 2014, at 5:02 AM, Pablo Morales <[email protected]>
wrote:

Yes, I know that I can not go back to IOs 7.1.2, and either, I couldn't

restore my iPhone with IOs 7.1.2  installed in my phone, because IOs8
7.1.2  is not signed for apple. It means that mandatory I have to
install
IOs 8, liking or doesn't liking, I have to.
But I don't understand why, the people is still buying this kind of
treatment from apple. It is ridiculos, every release, apple make this
kind
of problems with the BT keyboards, but they don't learn of their
previous
mistakes, again, they do the same mistakes, and again, the same
mistakes.
a Again, it was my last apple device.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 11:44 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Then you should have stayed with iOS 7.1.2, the issues with bluetooth
keyboards and braille displays have been well documented. And in case
you
wonder, no, you can't go back to iOS 7.1.2 any more.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:52 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Hi Sieghard.
Well, I have been using Bluetooth keyboard since my first iphone 4,
years
ago. The problem is that if I am using the Bluetooth keyboard, some
times
the keyboard stop responding. I turn it off, but the virtual keyboard
doesn't appear,  so I turn on the BT, and is no way to make it to type,
or
to make the iPhone respond. So I have to close what ever I was doing,
and
try again. Other times, if my iPhone gets the lock screen, and I try to

deactivate the lock screen using my BT, it just doesn't respond, but it

doesn't happen always, it happen some times.

Other times, if I am trying to type the info in several text boxes,with


the bt is no way to jump and type several text boxes. I type in the
first
a few boxes, but later the bt keyboard stop working.
It is very bad, because my bt was working perfectly in IOs7.1.2.



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 10:58 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Hi Pablo,

I don't use a bluetooth keyboard a lot, but I think most of theproblems


were fixed. Anyhow, it's not like you didn't know what you were getting

into, especially the issue with bluetooth keyboards and braille devices

has been discussed exhaustively. It might help if you more specifically

explain what exactly your problems are. I do assume you know that you
have
to turn quick nav off in order to enter text?

Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2014 2:10 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Hi Sieghard
Yes, I guess that apple did so. I am getting a lot of problems with the

Bluetooth keyboard, and I need to use the Bluetooth keyboard, a lot!
I am noticing a little bit slow my phone, I am not talking about how
voice
over works, I am talking about how my iPhone respond to the events.


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Sieghard Weitzel
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 10:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

The 2-finger double tap works I would say 90% or so of the time. Every
now
and then it will start playing whatever audio I was last listening to,
usually Audible, instead of answering the call. In that case I just
2-finger double tap again to stop the audio and then double tap the
accept
button to answer the call. Like I said, it happens rarely, but it still

does happen from time to time.

Pablo, I hope Apple put a few extra bugs into your copy of iOS 8.1.1
just
because we all love to hear you complain *smile*.


Regards,
Sieghard

-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Neal Ewers
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 11:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: starting with IOs 8.1.1

I can double tap to answer all calls.

Neal


-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf
Of Pablo Morales
Sent: Monday, November 24, 2014 12:51 PM
To: viphone
Subject: starting with IOs 8.1.1

Hi all.
Well, I love to make troubles, and because of that, I tried IOs 8.1.1,
to
see what I can say about this release.
Well guys, I thought that it will be so bad, but, no. IOs 8.1.1 is not
too
bad, I just found a few instability some times, and the most bugs that
IOs
8.1 had are fixed. Just right now I am missing answering phone calls
with
2 fingers, double tab, but I see that we have to do a double tab on th

accept button. Any how, IOs 8.1.1 is not so bad, and I am starting tobe


exploring this IOs.
Just be ready guys, because I will be making complain about it soon.

--
The following information is important for all members of the viphone
list. All new members to the this list are moderated by default. If you

have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or ifyou