In reply to's message of Wed, 23 May 2018 05:47:32
Hi Bob,

That's fine. It also works with any other sub-particles that have charge,
regardless of what they are called, or how big they are.
BTW I wrote here below that it would account for all mass changes in nuclear
reactions. That's not quite true. Proton repulsion is partly responsible for the
mass change in fission reactions, implying that the resonance I mentioned may
only apply to near neighbors rather than the entire nucleus, and be only
responsible for the nuclear force that binds nucleons together.

>Quarks are merely a mathematical scheme to help make sense of high energy 
>physics.  IMHO the do not exist.  I will send you a separate study of electron 
>scattering experiments that shed light on the structure of protons and 
>Bob Cook
>Sent from Mail<> for Windows 10
>From: <>
>Sent: Tuesday, May 22, 2018 12:59:00 PM
>Subject: Re: [Vo]:The PP fusion reaction in LENR
>In reply to  Andrew Meulenberg's message of Tue, 22 May 2018 05:36:11 -0400:
>Hi Andrew,
>I have been thinking about this since Bob mentioned relativistic mass a few
>posts back. It occurred to me that quarks probably move rapidly within 
>lending relativistic mass to the particle. Now you mention them here below and
>that tends to solidify my thoughts. We could account for all mass changes 
>nuclear reactions by assuming that the velocity of quark motion changes during
>the process. E.g. suppose that all the quarks in a nucleus both create and
>reinforce a resonant field. As nucleons are added to the nucleus the size of 
>entire system increases physically. Maybe that increases the time constant of
>the resonance (lowers the frequency), implying that they all move more slowly,
>releasing energy as they slow down. IOW a nucleus rings like a bell. The larger
>the bell, the lower the tone.
>>I am glad to see a discussion of changes in mass depending on environment.
>>I feel that this is fundamental to the CF story of D-D => 4He and many
>>other observables.
>>Rest mass (stationary, isolated in space, and with zero potentials) is
>>constant. Add velocity and the effective mass increases. Add
>>fields/potentials, and the effective mass (not the rest mass) increases or
>>Adding an electron to a proton orbit decreases the atomic mass to below the
>>combined rest masses of a proton and electron. The electron effective mass
>>increases from its increase in velocity. The remaining atomic mass (that of
>>the proton) must decrease as a photon is released.
>>The Klein-Gordon and Dirac equations predict deep electron orbits with
>>binding energy of > 0.5 MeV. The
>>resulting femto-atom will have that much less mass. The femto-hydrogen
>>electron will be relativistic (~ 1 or ~100 MeV depending on the model
>>used). The nucleus (a proton) mass must be reduced by at least that amount.
>>In either model, the atomic mass changes by the same amount (~ 0.5 MeV).
>>This change in nuclear mass has a major impact on how we calculate things
>>and claim what is possible or not in this new regime.
>>The basis for the nuclear change comes from the nucleon interactions in a
>>compound nucleus and in the quark interactions in even a single proton.
>>These charged components are greatly affected by the strong fields of a
>>proximate (fermi distance of a) deep-orbit electron.
>>Andrew M.
>>On Tue, May 22, 2018 at 3:35 AM, Russ <> wrote:
>>> Redefining the language in mid-stream always makes exchanging ideas
>>> difficult. The long standing convention is that all neutrons have the same
>>> mass, the binding energy in collections of nucleons in different nuclides
>>> varies.
>>> Everything gains mass as it approaches the speed of light.
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: <>
>>> Sent: Monday, May 21, 2018 10:42 PM
>>> To:
>>> Subject: Re: [Vo]:The PP fusion reaction in LENR
>>> In reply to  Jed Rothwell's message of Mon, 21 May 2018 11:00:54 -0400:
>>> Hi,
>>> [snip]
>>> >Russ <> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >Might you point to a reference where the mass of neutrons in deuterium vs.
>>> >> other nuclides is said to be different.
>>> >>
>>> >
>>> >I do not understand. Is the claim here that a neutron in deuterium is
>>> >heavier or lighter than a neutron in some other element?
>>> Yes (heavier), that's what I'm suggesting.
>>> > There are
>>> >different kinds or neutrons, or entering deuterium changes the mass?
>>> The latter. The energy release from the nuclear reaction has to came from
>>> somewhere. I am simply saying that it comes from the conversion of part of
>>> the mass of the constituent particles.
>>> >
>>> >That seems extremely unlikely to me.
>>> Then you need to explain where the fusion energy comes from. (I'm counting
>>> addition of a neutron to a nucleus as a form of fusion).
>>> Note that the formation of D from a free proton & a free neutron releases
>>> only
>>> 2.2 MeV of energy whereas at the other extreme, addition of a neutron to a
>>> Ni nucleus releases about 8 MeV of energy. Hence my conclusion that
>>> neutrons
>>> in Ni have lower mass than those in D.
>>> Regards,
>>> Robin van Spaandonk
>>> local asymmetry = temporary success
>Robin van Spaandonk
>local asymmetry = temporary success

Robin van Spaandonk

local asymmetry = temporary success

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