On 13/8/2007 11:08 AM, Horace Heffner wrote:
> > On Aug 13, 2007, at 7:30 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: > >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Horace Heffner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: <[email protected]> >> Sent: Monday, August 13, 2007 4:40 PM >> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Re: Only potential differences matter >> >> >>> >>> On Aug 13, 2007, at 2:59 AM, Michel Jullian wrote: >>> >>>>> Measuring relative surface potentials between two >>>>> electrodes simply doesn't tell you if there are excess surface >>>>> electrons on one or both or neither. It still seems pretty obvious >>>>> to me. >>>> >>>> You can say that three times it won't make it true, whatever Lewis >>>> Carroll says ;-) >>>> >>>> Come on, what you describe is a capacitor, there are excess >>>> electrons on the surface of the most negative electrode facing the >>>> most positive one, of a very predictable total charge given by: >>>> >>>> C*Delta_V = C*(potential of most positive electrode - potential of >>>> most negative electrode) >>>> >>>> Elementary EE stuff. Only potential differences matter I tell you! >>> >>> Suppose a 1 m radius metal sphere, sphere A, has 1 coul more negative >>> charges than positive. Suppose a 1 m radius metal sphere, sphere B, >>> has 2 coul more negative charges than positive. They have a finite >>> potential difference V at some separation D. The same is true for >>> two spheres X and Y where X has 2 coul less negative charges than >>> positive, and Y has 1 coul less negative charges than positive. >>> >>> Sphere, charge in coul: >>> A -1 >>> B -2 >>> X +2 >>> Y +1 >>> >>> There is no difference in relative potentials, >> >> How do you know? > > > Because the excess charge count is a *given*. It is a postulate. > The pairs of spheres each have a finite potential difference V at > some separation D. D is a *given* from which a V results. Coulomb's > law is a *given*. I can apply logic to the givens and reach a > conclusion. > > >> All you can tell is that there is no difference in relative charges! > > Charge is absolute. It is *my* contention that it is possible to > establish a neutral condition, and thus a neutral potential, a gauge, > from which fugacity can be determined by measuring potential > differences. This then is in fact telling the difference in absolute > charges, not relative charges. Electron fugacity can thus be > determined, via an absolute potential, and in fact differing electron > fugacities may produce differing results with respect to cold fusion > vs mere relative potential differences which tell you nothing. It is > your contention that only potential differences matter, not mine. Horace, You seem to feel you must rely exclusively on measures of voltage and amperage to determine the absolute charge. However, you could direct a beam of electrons near the spheres and look for a deflection in the beam. If the deflection is towards the sphere it is positively charged. If the deflection is away from the sphere it is negatively charged. Along with a measure of voltage this would be enough to determine the absolute charge...or not? Harry
