Ed -
My information that the computer models can't accurately track
reality?
Chaos theory, mostly, and practical experience and observation too,
validated by numerous people who know and use these systems and are
honest
about how they work. You can't expect a recursive computer model to
accurately predict for you the outcomes of a planetary weather/ocean
system.
Even if you had precise data on every cubic centimeter of sky,
ocean, and
land surface, and the data weren't linked to geological, cosmic, and
other
influences from outside your system (they are of course), you still
wouldn't
get much more model accuracy than the wild guesses and massaged
outcomes you
have now. That's one. Another is bad data collection and analysis,
documented extensively. That's two, but it's really moot because of
one.
Three: a false problem is being substituted for real ones, used as
cover to
impose socialist-style government control on a population that
otherwise
repeatedly rejects such attempts when allowed to express their
choice at the
ballot box. Liberals and socialists are inherently totalitarian and
have a
hard time with that darn voting thing, much preferring to rule the
masses by
direct edict. So they use false issues and the courts, if not force,
to get
what can't be obtained democratically. It's #3 that does make me a bit
angry. To answer your question, the advantage of being angry about
someone
trying to steal your liberty on false pretense (or otherwise)is that
you are
inspired to act to stop it. One small example of such loss is the
compact
fluorescent bulb. Mercury leaching out of landfills into the
groundwater is
a Bad Thing. It is a fact. Yet their use is being *legislated*
(incandescents banned - loss of liberty to choose) because they may
reduce
the emission of a harmless gas! The only real advantage is saving a
small
amount of oil, but the cost is real pollution vs. imaginary AGW.
That is
wrong. Food as energy (ethanol) is wrong. Failure to properly and
safely
exploit our own existing energy resources for those same false
reasons is
wrong.
Yes we need to get off foreign oil in the very short term and
eventually all
oil as a fuel source. I'm in the tank for that. But we cannot afford
to
waste any more precious time and resources acting on the basis that
AGW
exists, much less do we have any predictive ability or practical
capacity to
mitigate such changes in any way. Notice where the posts trailed off
about
slowing a harmful cooling cycle? Good at a bad time, or maybe bad at
good,
but ... ppppft. The point is even if we were granted the power to
begin
directly manipulating the weather, we have no clue as to how to
wield that
power to obtain the desired result.
So, what is the point of fighting this process?
In addition to the practical matters above, our integrity and more.
It's
wrong to direct public policy based on a lie. For instance, I think
most
people here, including perhaps yourself Ed, feel that certain policies
arising from the war on terror or at least the Iraq invasion are
based on a
lie. How does that make you feel? Sad? Angry? There you go. Let's
use truth
and good science this time.
- Rick
-----Original Message-----
From: Edmund Storms [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 2:18 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: Edmund Storms
Subject: Re: [Vo]:Sunspotless
Rick, I ask you where you get your information and why does the
claim for
global warming causes such an emotional reaction? The world is clearly
warming. The only issue is how much of this warming is caused by
burning
fossil fuels. Regardless of the answer to this question, what is the
advantage of being so angry about the debate? Reducing the use of
fossil
fuel has great advantage regardless of its contribution to CO2. So,
what is
the point of fighting this process?
Ed
On Sep 2, 2008, at 5:01 PM, Rick Monteverde wrote:
Sounds scary. But why are sea ice levels still reported to be so low
in the arctic if it's getting colder? Why is NOAA saying this July
was
the 9th warmest globally on record?
http://www.noaa.gov/stories2008/20080815_ncdc.html What do sunspots
have to do with global climate? Noctilucent clouds not forming? Do
they matter? I know there's some coincidence between low sunspot
cycles and colder climate, but how good is that circumstantial data?
Better than the data associating warming with human greenhouse gas
output?
One thing is very certain: we do not have any possibility of
predicting a global 'trend' either way in the absence of any real
handle on the actual causes of such trends. That otherwise rational
people have concluded that human activity is a significant climate
change driver based on untenable models and theories is very sad,
especially when false 'solutions' are proposed, even demanded and
*legislated*, right at the time when real solutions such as you
mention below are actually called for. I wouldn't want to repeat that
mistake with sunspots or anything else until we really know what
we're
talking about. What might look like blood in the water could really
just be an algae bloom due to global warming.<g> But you're right
when
you imply that dealing with climate change means preparing for it,
not
making foolish attempts to mitigate it. I posted here before why it's
absolutely certain that the models and notions about anthropogenic
global warming are totally nonsense (not false per se, simply
nonsense
as in completely detached from reality). At the same time everyone
can
see that the climate is always changing. You either have the courage
to accept science despite social and political pressures, or flee to
your comforting illusions and stick your head right up where NOAA
must
be putting their thermometers.
Since the faith based AGW movement has apparently become a government
favored and sanctioned religion in violation of our Constitution, I'm
inclined to engage in civil disobedience with regard to any laws or
regulations based on that religion, and to oppose the activities of
its zealots with appropriate actions of my own. C'mon you alternative
thinkers here, join the revolution. Cells of resistance are popping
up
all over. Free beer while it lasts.
- Comrade Rick-0
-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Foster [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 6:52 AM
To: vortex-l@eskimo.com
Subject: [Vo]:Sunspotless
Could a significant global cooling effect be taking place.? I notice
there is a deafening silence from Pope Algore and his Church of
Global
Warming on
this subject. It would be very inconvenient for the selling of
carbon
indulgences, oops... that's offsets. Nothing is made of the fact
that
2007 saw the largest one year drop in average global temperature in
recorded history. Didn't hear about that did you? Almost everyone
who
lives on the real earth, rather that the computer climate model
earth,
has noticed that it's been a lot cooler lately. Where I live in
southern California, winter before last winter was the coldest since
1948, but of course nothing was made of that in the news. I lost 500
feet of ficus hedge because it froze to death. There was a massive
die-out of native plant species in the canyons near my home as well,
all frozen.
The fast dancing and circumlocutory nonsense spewing forth from the
Global Warming Priesthood grasping for some explanation are becoming
both shrill and comical. The real reason for climate changes, solar
activity, is showing us something quite the opposite of Algore's
dreamworld. You know, that's the one where all of us ride bicycles
and
starve to death, while Algore flies about in his Gulfstream and has a
special lane on the road for his fleet of SUVs while he grows ever
fatter. Anyone else notice he's begun to resemble a fat Bela Lugosi?
There has been a total lack of sunspots for a month. This is not
good
news, either for real people or Algore. This normally indicates a
significant colder period on the earth, or even an ice age. We need
to get really serious about energy supplies, both conventional and
new, especially the new ones. We also need to quit whining about
genetically modified crops. If there is a long term colder climate,
agricultural output will plummet. More energy and higher crop yields
in a shorter growing season will be essential to prevent the
starvation of millions or even billions.
Here is a link to the observations about the lack of sunspots:
http://www.dailytech.com/Sun+Makes+History+First+Spotless+Month+in+a
+C
entury
/article12823.htm
http://tinyurl.com/562srq
M.
