I agree with John, managing and contributing to one list is hard
enough without adding to the problem by using multiple lists. Most
people on this list are adults and should be able to agree on
something so simple as when political or religious discussion gets to
be too much without forcing a total ban on both.
I find the effect that Grok had on this group to be discouraging. If
one insane person can cause such turmoil on such a small scale to
intelligent people, I rest my case about the damage they do to the
world in general and the need to understand this type of behavior.
Ed
On Jun 16, 2009, at 8:54 AM, John Berry wrote:
3 lists, that would just be unmanageable.
Better is a rule of thumb, politics should be allowed as long as it
is strictly on topic politics that isn't causing a problem,
otherwise as with any other off topic subject it ought to go to B.
Not to mention the cost of running an extra list to Bill.
Anyway if a political portion of an on topic post causes the entire
post needing to be posted to a different list that's a mess too.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 2:39 AM, OrionWorks
<[email protected]> wrote:
Recent debates about the need to stay more focused on on-topic
scientific related discussions within vortex-l prime [Vo] have raised
the hackles of certain participants, and might I mention here that
some of those individuals who have expressed their concerns are
considered respected long-term heavy weights.
I would like to propose that, if it is within Mr. Beaty's power (and
desire) to do so, he might create another alternative vortex list, a
new and improved OFF TOPIC Vortex-LoT list group, one where the
subject line is prefixed with: [VoT].
I would like to suggest several useful reasons why it might be
useful to do so:
(A) It would take the tension off maintaining the purity of discussing
scientific-only subject material within [Vo] prime. If certain
long-term discussions (as many naturally tend to do) begin evolving
and splitting off into matters concerning politics and/or religion or
perhaps something else entirely [Vo] participants can quickly state,
Hey, we're beginning to get off-topic here, it's time to move this
particularly thread over to [VoT] where those who are still interested
can resume lively discussions.
(B) I am suggesting the creation of a new and improved off-topic
Vortex list where ETIQUETTE RULES ARE APPLIED in the same manner they
are followed within Vortex-l prime. IMO, Vortex-b [VoB] is NOT a fair
and/or healthy environment for the discussion of off-topic subject
material that may have originated within Vortex-l prime. There ARE no
rules for maintaining any semblance of etiquette within VoB. It's my
understanding that that is precisely why VoB was created in the first
place, so that anyone who felt the need to engage in verbal fist
fights could do so without any fear of reprisals from Mr. Beaty, the
god of Vortex-l. Unfortunately, and IMHO, the fallout of such stop-gap
measures is that [VoB] is NOT a healthy environment for the discussion
of lively and/or spirited OT subjects. [VoB] has instead transformed
into a perfect breading ground for the attraction of all sorts of
despicable troll personas who will implant themselves and begin
advertising their services. [VoB] has transformed into a cesspool
filled with vitriol. Not surprisingly many who would have wanted to
continue discussing serious and creative OT subjects that might have
originated as "scientific" discussion in [Vo] are loath to discuss
matters within [VoB]. They have unsubscribed from [VoB], and so have
I.
(C) Another point is that for many vortex-l individuals there almost
seems to be a negative stigma attached to the discussion of OT subject
material. It's as if OT discussions are almost considered second-class
material, that they are beneath vortex-l, that such discussions are
second-tier and don't deserve the same rights of etiquette or
protection that those who wish to engage in pure scientific
discussion. This is a form of prejudice and not a very fair one IMHO.
Granted this may NOT actually be what most feel about the discussion
of OT subjects, but I think it's a legitimate perception and a
concern.
(D) The point of creating [VoT] would be to create a good, strong and
healthy environment for the discussion of OT subjects that may have
originated within [Vo] but are now no longer precisely defined in
scientific terms. Such OT discussions should IMHO still be able to
enjoy the same rights and protections that vortex-l prime participants
enjoy.
Therefore, I would like to propose that if it is at all feasible for
Mr. Beaty to create an alternative Off Topic List groups, the
Vortex-LoT group [VoT] where Off-Topic discussions can be discussed
but with the same degree of net etiquette, civility, and protections
granted to those within vortex-l prime. Granted, and this should be
obvious to many, [VoT] discussions are likely to occasionally get a
tad more lively, and possibly even contentious at times. Nevertheless,
AND THIS IS THE CRUCIAL POINT: Anyone who begins to misbehave
incessantly or in a chronic way can be given a time-out or, if there
is no other recourse, permanently barred in order to maintain the
health and safe civility of [VoT].
Mr. Beaty, is this possible to do something like this? Would it be too
difficult to do?
Does anyone else have any thoughts, pro or con, on this matter?
Regards
Steven Vincent Johnson
www.OrionWorks.com
www.zazzle.com/orionworks
