At 11:38 AM 6/17/2011, Akira Shirakawa wrote:
Regarding that, this an "open letter" (in English) from Giuseppe
Levi to Steven Krivit that just got posted on 22passi (I feel it
might be subject to slight grammer/wording changes, so I'm not
copy/pasting it here). It appears that he is not pleased of Krivit's
preliminary travel report too:
Short URL: http://goo.gl/2vr0M
http://22passi.blogspot.com/2011/06/quattro-gatti-e-sette-persone-3.html
Well, I'll copy it:
Dear, Mr. Krivit
I have carefully read
<http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/16/preliminary-report-of-interviews-with-e-cat-trio-rossi-focardi-and-levi/>your
preliminary report on your travel in Bologna.
Your report clearly demonstrates that you have not understood
anything of what you have seen and what we have explained you.
First of all the story about the steam.
As the signature in my email says I got a PhD in Physics years ago.
This means that I have totally understood the difference between
residual water in steam as fraction of mass or volume.
As I have unsuccessfully tried to explain you :
1) The plots you were showing are well known and you can find them
in any manual of physical chemistry.
They apply when you measure the quantity of steam present as % of VOLUME.
2) As I have told you many times, Dr. Galantini, the expert chemist
that was in charge, has done a measure as percent of MASS.
As Professor Zanchini has told you the same day we met, one of the
crucial informations you have omitted from your preliminary report,
a fraction of water in the steam, measured by MASS as we have done,
would reduce the amount of measured energy in a linear way.
So our calculation and our analysis is correct.
Because you:
Omitted part of information you had, insulted me (and my University)
trying to say that I'm not prepared in my field, tried (just tried)
to scare me and put me under psychological pressure in order to
obtain so far undisclosed data,
I will not send you any other information.
Regards,
Dr. G.Levi
It would be foolish to speculate much on what actually happened in
the private interview, but I'll guess that Krivit has an audio
recording. Nevertheless, fools rush in ....
My first reaction to the Levi comments are about the claim that
Krivit "tried (just tried) to scare me and put me under psychological
pressure in order to obtain so far undisclosed data."
That's mind reading, unless the evidence was crystal clear, like
Krivit saying "You tell me your secret data or I'll ruin you!" or
something like that. If Krivit did say something like that it would
merely be colossally stupid. Rather, I expect that Krivit did press
for details, it's what I'd expect. And that pushing for details might
have been culturally outside of norms, perhaps Krivit was expected to
be more polite. I've seen Krivit be, shall we say, pushy, even by
American standards.
Now, Levi is, on the face, reacting to the travel blog, the
"preliminary report," but it's pretty clear that Levi is also
reacting to his own personal impression of the interview. Krivit may
have clumsily presented standard information about steam volume,
explaining his own concerns, with Levi taking this as "He thinks I'm
an idiot." I've seen that kind of thing happen!
Here is the Krivit report again:
http://blog.newenergytimes.com/2011/06/16/preliminary-report-of-interviews-with-e-cat-trio-rossi-focardi-and-levi/
It includes this:
The primary validity of the E-Cat trio's dramatic energy claim is
highly contingent on and derived from the heat output which they
calculate indirectly from a claimed full or near-full vaporization
of 100-degree water to steam. Complete vaporization of 100-degree
water into steam requires the complete absence of suspended water
droplets in steam.
The water droplets suspended in the steam may be measured on a
volumetric, or possibly, on a mass basis. The difference is crucial,
because a measurement by mass has a linear effect on the output
enthalpy, and a measurement by volume has more of an exponential effect.
Volumetrically, a mere five percent of water in steam reduces the
vaporization enthalpy to a trivial level. Even one percent of water
in the steam will make a major reduction in the Rossi-Focardi-Levi claims.
As I understand the matter, this is true in itself. The statements
are properly qualified. The mass per unit volume of steam is far
smaller than the mass per unit volume of water, so Krivit wants to
know if the steam quality is determined based on mass or volume.
Reasonable question, I'd think.
My full report will include a detailed assessment of their
methodology, and, as much as they will provide, their data.
In other words, the travel report is, as the title says, preliminary,
just his immediate impressions. Levi reacts to it as if it is a
definitive, final report.
The steam and/or water that comes immediately out of the E-Cat is
hidden from sight because the outlet from the E-Cat goes directly to
a three-meter black rubber hose, which then feeds into a drain in
the plumbing system.
On my request Tuesday, Rossi removed the hose from the drain. Before
doing so, he carefully lifted the last meter of the hose above the
height of the drain, allowed any water in it to flow down the drain
for a few seconds, and then removed the hose from the drain, keeping
the open end pointed up. I could see some white steam slowly exiting
from the hose. He said he had to put it back in the drain quickly,
after a few seconds, otherwise it could be dangerous.
And why would it be dangerous? I can only think of one reason. It
might spit hot water. And if it's spitting hot water, a significant
amount of the mass may be coming off as water, not as vapor. Steam
from a hose would be dangerous only if you stick your hand or face
into it.... it won't fly across the room and scald you. If you can
see the end of the hose, and if you see that the vapor only appears
at some distance (maybe very short) from the opening, you can see
that it's live steam, i.e., no water droplets, the "white steam" that
Krivit talks about. If it is truly "white steam" exiting from the
hose, it's got water droplets in it. Steam itself is invisible.
Krivit is being normally cautious here, asking the obvious questions.
I don't think they like these questions, which would worry me -- a
lot -- if I thought that the reality of the E-cat depends on the
openness of Rossi and Levi.
I discussed the crucial difference in steam enthalpy calculations by
mass versus by volume with Levi on Wednesday afternoon. Based on his
initial response, I could not be sure if he had previously
understood the potential impact.
(This is fluff, particularly given the language issue and the
complexity. Krivit often does this, he makes his own reactions and
thoughts into a major part of his tory. It's hard to believe that
Levi -- or any physicist -- did not understand the issue; what I can
see here is that Krivit's doubts about Levi were communicated. People
telegraph how they think, it's normal. Levi took offense, obviously.)
By the end of our conversation, after I showed him my calculations
which displayed one to two orders of magnitude less enthalpy if the
measurements had been made volumetrically, he assured me that the
measurements had been measured by mass.
This I notice, and it's clear: Levi is reacting more to his own idea
of Krivit's position than to the actual travel report, because Krivit
acknowledges Levi's claim that measurements were based on mass. Levi
implies that Krivit remained ignorant of this.
But, then, there is a natural question: *how* were the measurements made?
I requested and strongly encouraged him to be absolutely sure, and
if necessary, get back to me in a week with a correction to his Jan.
21 report. I also asked him if he would be willing to provide me
with a copy of Galantini's steam humidity report from the Jan. 14
experiment by next Wednesday. Levi agreed to my request.
In Levi's response, though, he states he will not be providing any
more information. So there! Take that! See if I'll cooperate with the
Likes of You!
Did Levi promise to provide that report? If so, is he backing out of it?
The Essen/Kullander April 3 report of the March 29 E-Cat experiment
does provide some details about how the steam was measured for its
liquid content. I am in the process of evaluating this information
to assess if it reflects a mass or volumetric basis for the
measurements. If any readers believe that the given information
provides clarity on the method used during the Essen/Kullander
experiment, please send me an e-mail right away.
The entire uncertainty about vaporization enthalpy would be moot if
the experiments were run with a higher flow rate to keep the output
temperature below boiling. Levi apparently did this on Feb. 10-11
and he provided information about his final results to reporter Mats
Lewan of Ny Teknik.
I've not heard any claims, anywhere, of "volumetric" measurements of
water/steam with the Rossi device. Volume of water in has been cited,
but that's a stand-in for mass in. So I think Krivit is on one of his
wild-goose chases. Krivit, again, acknowledges Levi's work with
higher flow rate.
Levi has not however, provided Lewan, or anybody for that matter,
any information about his data. On Wednesday, I asked Levi for this
data, for the second time. This time, he agreed. Levi promised to
send me either raw or formatted data from the Feb. 10-11 experiment
by next Wednesday.
Again, promised data. Did Levi promise this? Is he going to deliver
what he promised? To me, this is an integrity issue. If someone
delivers what they promise, they are demonstrating that what they say
can be trusted. It spills over into trusting what they say about what
they have experienced.
After I completed my interviews, Rossi left and I packed up my gear
and waited outside for my ride. Before I left, two men came over
from suite 6-C and took the coffee machine away.
This is the most fun part of the travel blog. I'll interpret it: "No
more coffee for the Likes of You!"
Of course, it may mean nothing. Indeed, it all means nothing. Or next
to nothing. I hope Krivit got some coffee from his hotel or
somewhere, and I hope he enjoys the remainder of his trip. As to
Rossi and Levi, if they aren't blowing smoke (or liquid water), they
will be fabulously wealthy, quite likely, and what I think of them
and this silly story won't be of much import.
