I find your statements bewildering. . On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 11:42 AM, Abd ul-Rahman Lomax <[email protected]>wrote:
> There are some pretty sloppy statements. I know that Damon is being > sarcastic, but that sarcasm is based on certain understandings. Let's be > more careful, everyone! > > > At 05:41 AM 7/21/2011, Damon Craig wrote: > > The greatest souce of pressure is the water standing in the hose. >> > > Probably not, but it's significant. First of all, what are the starting > conditions? Before the heating is started, the hose is full of water, that > water is flowing. From the Krivit video, perhaps from others, the elevation > of the hose above the floor can be estimated. (For those who haven't looked, > the hose is not in a "sink," it is in a "sink drain," i.e, a hole in the > wall where a sink might be installed. > > > You are wrong. If you can point to another source of backpressure, please do so. In one demonstration the hose ran into a sink in another room in my recollection. > > > If the hose end loops up 12 inches to dump into a bucket. There is a head >> of water was the hose decends to the floor from the device of 12 inches. The >> steam must push down upon this head to escape raising the pressure in the >> device. >> > > That is, to put it mildly, pucky. The elevation of the hose, to this level, > is irrelevant. The weight of the water in the hose will reduce the pressure, > were it not for the flow. Steam will *allow* increased flow of the water. > The pressure in the chamber will be *reduced* by the water head from the > difference in elevation between the chamber and the water level in the > bucket. With no boiling, there is a contrary effect, increased pressure > caused by the pump with its fixed flow rate. That flow rate through the > outlet orifice will increase the pressure in the chamber. Only a little, I > think. > > The elevation is relevant to determining the back pressure. Evolving steam must push down on this head whether the water is flowing or not. > > See the Lewan video. In the sound track you can hear the steam rising >> through the water column when the camera focuses on the hose exit. >> > > It would be nice if someone would post the link, if they have it handy when > they are writing here! > > > There is an additional head from the submurged hose end in the bucket. Add >> these to the submersion depth of the thermocouple and there's plenty of >> added pressure to acount for 100.4 C, or whatever it takes to cause general >> confusion. >> > > Seems confusion can be caused with very little effort, or maybe even no > effort at all. > > > If it rises 30" to dump into a sink, think of all the free energy that's >> gotta be there because the steam looks so much hotter. If the exit is moved >> to the roof, you get even more free energy. >> > > There isn't any sink. The hose in the Krivit demo goes down to the floor, > then rises to a sink drain. That's maybe 35 cm from the floor, a very rough > estimate. Since the sink drain is below the table where the E-Cat is > sitting, this will reduce the pressure in the E-Cat, not increase it. > > Yes, in the Krivit video it runs into a sink. In the Levan video a blue bucket. Not all these demos were in the same place that I am aware of. > No, what increases the pressure in the E-Cat would be two sources: pump > pressure and steam pressure. > Yes, steam pressure. This is elementry physics. It can't be all that hard to figure out. > Stop the pump, and with no boiling, the pressure in an E-Cat with an outlet > hose full of water, leading down to a drain pipe, will be below atmospheric > pressure, by the relevant head. If you were to open the steam escape valve > at that point, air would flow in, not out. > > What does "leading down to a drain pipe" mean? If it leads down, any water drains out of the hose and the pressure in the water jacket will be at ambient pressure. >
