At 07:19 PM 7/17/2011, Jouni Valkonen wrote:
Julian Brown wrote:
> Basically, the whole set up defies even approximate quantitative
> calorimetric analysis.
>
This is nonsensical speculation. E-Cat is designed to be a standard
boiling water reactor and boiling water reactor is exactly similar
setup than a kettle. And we know that tea pots do not produce wet
steam. It is very safe conclusion to make that E-Cat produces 95-99%
dry steam. That means that energy calculations are accurate up to 95%.
This is very simple and very basic physics.
Jouni, teapots don't have a fixed water flow
input. Rather, water is added when the level declines.
A teapot with a fixed flow input could overflow,
indeed, if that's the only way that water is
added, we can predict that, unless there is some
complex feedback mechanism either on flow or on
heat vs water level, the water will either boil
away and the chimney temperature will increase,
or water will start to overflow, some portion of the water will flow out.
You've apparently missed a lot of the discussion
here. There is an issue with wet vs dry steam,
and you are probably correct about the steam
value, but all bets are off if water actually starts to overflow.
Also we can calculate the internal pressure, because we know that the
opening for the hose is 10-25 mm wide. This is very simple
mathematics.
There is some simple math that seems to have been
missed by some. It's been alleged that the
temperature of the chimney, say 100.5, indicates
dry steam. The problem with this is that dry
steam above boiling would require a chamber
hotter than boiling, this can't happen unless the
chamber substantially empties. No, that
temperature is almost certainly the equilibrium
temperature for wet steam (maybe only a little
wet!) at the pressure in the chimney.
For the measurements itself even thermometer is irrelevant, because
you can inspect visually the dryness of the steam. At least I can
measure when I am cooking pasta, and I am performing empirical
analysis when the water has reached approximately 100°C temperature.
Unlike Julian suggest, I certainly do not need a caloric meter for
cooking pasta!
You can see that you are boiling water. However,
we can't see the water boiling in the E-cat, can
we? What we really can't see is if there is any
overflow water, it's been concealed, with only
sporadic observation in a way that could hide a
*lot* of overflow water. At the flow rate in one
of the demos, I forget which, I calculated that
the hose would fill at the rate of a meter per
four minutes. That's plenty of time to empty the
hose, as Rossi does in his video -- and as Lewan
mentions in his report on the April demos -- and
then display the hose for quite some time, with no water coming out the end.
It is just, that this whole speculation has been gone far too complex,
because certain two dimensional "scientists" lacks common sense, so
that they fail even rudimentary skills, like they are unable to cook
pasta without proper calorimetric analysis. This is just silly.
Aw shucks. I can cook pasta, I just don't cook it
for myself. Low carb diet. I cook it for my kids.
I have a LabJack with some great thermocouples, I get perfect pasta every time.
Okay, kidding. I do have the LabJack, but not for
making pasta. Come on, these arguments are really silly.
> The small chimney will result in a small overpressure and a boiling
> temperature > 100 Celsius, so I am not impressed by 100.5 Celsius
>
Chimney is the widest part of the E-Cat. However the opening for the
hose is small, perhaps 15-25 mm and it may rise the boiling point to
99.9-100.2 °C.
Something like that. I think it's 16 mm, maybe.
> He certainly has a charming manner; I liked him and would never suggest he
> has criminal intent.
In the USA, maximum sentence from fraud is 150 years in prison. I am
sure that sig. Rossi has prepared himself for a fraud. In other words,
these are extremely serious and insulting accusations.
Julian Brown has stated what many stated, obvious
deficiencies in the demonstrations. He speculates
on a possible cause, and might have been
incautious about that. The "insulting" here,
though, is far heavier on Rossi's side. If you
don't see that, I'd suggest looking again!
Brown's report leaves open the possibility that
Rossi is for real, and he seems to think that
there is excess heat. Yet he's being treated as a "clown" and "snake."
