There can be no flow into the T-tube during normal operation. Even
if the T-tube is emptied, it obviously fills in seconds. In the
normal running it has no effect. The video showed it sitting there
filled. The overflow water simply flows over the top of the T-tube
and into the hose.
The water output at the hose has little meaning. That is because it
is not possible to tell what is overflow and what is condensation.
The overflow is not constant, as demonstrated by the differences in
between the 20:50 and 21:50 readings.
I must say it is of interest the wording: "21:50 Liquid water at the
outlet was measured ...", which leaves the word "outlet" somewhat
ambiguous. It would make no sense at all to measure overflow at the
hose outlet though.
On Sep 22, 2011, at 4:20 PM, Mark Iverson-ZeroPoint wrote:
Horace,
I think Lewan's thinking is the following:
- the system is more or less at steady-state
- the flow into the T-tube (let's call it 'outlet_overflow') was
(more or
less) constant,
- the liquid water coming out the end of the HOSE was then:
Outlet_overflow + condensation_in_the_hose
-Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Horace Heffner [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, September 22, 2011 5:11 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: [Vo]: Rossi sells home to finance demo
On Sep 22, 2011, at 1:53 PM, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 02:26 PM 9/22/2011, Horace Heffner wrote:
Lewan couldn't use it?
I can't find his statement that he measured the outflow through the
T-trap. I don't THINK I imagined it ....
I don't see how it is possible to get reasonable measurement using
the T-trap. If you look at the film at around 3:50 you can see the T-
trap is full. If you then look at 4:25 you can see the flow is very
fast, and could fill up the T-trap in a few seconds at most. A small
plastic container is being used by hand to capture the flow. Likely
that was later weighed.
Here is the film URL:
http://www.nyteknik.se/nyheter/energi_miljo/energi/article3264362.ece
Here are the notes regarding water overflow:
20:50 Overflow was approximately 3,7 grams/s or 13 kg/hour. T2=29.3°
C, T3=90.3°C.
20:55 Overflow decreases. T2=29.2°C, T3=93.4°C.
21:50 Liquid water at the outlet was measured and found to vary
between 1.4 and 1.8 grams/s or from 5.0 to 6.5 kg/hour.
So, it was not your imagination the overflow was measured. My point
(see below) was merely that the T-trap could not be used to make the
overflow measurements, at least not accurately. Measuring required
removing the hose and using a container to catch the flowing water.
Very inconvenient to do frequently. The T-trap was highly under
sized.
On Sep 22, 2011, at 1:26 PM, Horace Heffner wrote:
On Sep 22, 2011, at 11:39 AM, Alan J Fletcher wrote:
At 12:18 PM 9/22/2011, Peter Heckert wrote:
Fit a transparent silicone rubber hose to this steam outlet, so
we can see the water overflow and remove all doubts.
He sort-of did this for Lewan's September demo. The white
section at the outlet has a transparent T-connection. (Video
4:22). Lewan said measuring the overflow at the T-trap gave the
same results as disconnecting the hose entirely. I don't know why
Lewan didn't measure the overflow at regular intervals.
The overflow was obviously much larger than expected. It looked
like the T-trap would fill in seconds. It looked like it was a
closed end T. If it were an open end T then the steam would pour
out as well.
So .. Rossi made it available, Lewan didn't use it. Who's to blame?
Lewan couldn't use it?
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Best regards,
Horace Heffner
http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
