At 10:44 PM 8/15/2012, Axil Axil wrote:
Most of all, Papp himself seemed to be the obstacle. In order to
have a commercial engine, he needed to disclose how it worked, and
he was terrified that if he disclosed it, he'd be cheated.
Bob Rohner once asked Papp why he was not interested in
commercializing the Papp engine. Papp told him that he could get all
the money he needed anytime he wanted it and he was living very
well with things the way they were..
The SCAM that is based on a real system is far more effective than
one that is not. A working prototype is a lifelong meal ticket.
If the prototype technology is released, the easy money comes to an
end. The inventor is moved out of the picture buy the big money interests.
Commersialization means work and worries and keeping stockholders happy.
One must not confuse the SCAM with the system; these two things must
be considered separately with one not diminishing the other.
Of course, Axil. However, a prototype that *appears to work* can also
be a meal ticket.
Papp is intriguing because the demonstrations were so dramatic.
However, and I've made this point about Rossi, it is *always*
possible to fake a demonstration, in ways that observers cannot
detect, unless they get lucky. That's why we look for independent
reproduction or verification.
Papp didn't rip off "big money interests." He ripped off smaller
investors who lost what they put in. Some of them continued to
believe in his engine.
Absolutely, I cannot claim that the engine doesn't work, as if that
were a fact. No, the appearance is that it works.
The same is true for Rossi, by the way. What skeptics showed (and
this includes myself and Krivit) was that the excess heat from Rossi
could be as low as zero, given flaws in the demonstrations. The
affair shows how experts, even, can be fooled by appearances.
We did not show that there actually was no excess heat in all
demonstrations. We have no results from independent testing of
Rossi's Energy Catalyzers. He could easily arrange it. He could do it
in ways that would be reasonably safe as far as his intellectual
property is concerned. But he doesn't. We cannot treat Rossi's work
as proof that commercial application of LENR has been achieved.
And that's just as true -- or was true -- of the Papp engine. Papp
was capable of faking stuff, he faked his submarine accident -- at
considerable risk to himself. He likely faked his kidnapping,
shooting himself in the shoulder. If he would go that far to avoid an
admission or appearance of failure, how far would he go with regard
to possible faking of a demonstration? Something actually simpler,
and certainly less painful.
There are now new people working with the Papp engine and claiming
success. This remains true: there is -- *as yet* -- no independent
verification. There have been *demonstrations* showing very
substantial work done. On the face of it, the Papp engine is amazing.
It is no wonder there is interest.
However, *no independent verification*. Someone financially
interested in the engine isn't truly independent. I agree that it
does increase credibility. I noticed one thing about some of the
videos. No specific claim was made. Bob Rohner allowed his
interviewer to wax eloquent about how this was going to revolutionize
the planet, and Bob just stood there.
PlasmERG, however, has announced a kit. http://plasmerg.com/kits.html
Brilliant! Has anyone built one of these? It is looks quite possible
to adequately demonstrate what we might call the Papp Effect, if this
kit works. One could build the kit and measure the work done against
that spring, and, as well, measure the energy in. Not difficult at all.
Because the investment is low, we are likely to know soon, unless the
kit is sold with a horrific non-disclosure agreement, but if it is,
we'll also know that soon. Someone will get to the point of actually
buying the kit, be shown the non-disclosure agreement, and back out,
refuse to sign it, and tell us about it.
Very low investment is the key here. With Papp, people were putting
in $100,000 or more. And they got nothing. Here, you get, at worst, a
nifty toy. As I wrote before, some people will spend this much for
entertainment. Some skeptics, to debunk something, have spent much
more than this.
Unfortunately, the kit isn't as cheap as it looks. See below.
Note, the site implies that total investment, including electronics,
is $500. There is a catch. The $350 kit doesn't include the fuel, and
it doesn't include the mechanical parts, i.e., the piston, etc. The
kit documents are at http://plasmerg.com/_files/PopperKit.zip The kit
is just the electronics. That small circuit board plus the coils and
electrodes (modified spark plugs?).
The flyer, page 1, gives the ingredients of the fuel, with
percentages. Not stated if these are by weight or volume. The gases
are helium, 35.6%; neon, 26.3%, argon, 16.9%, krypton, 12.7%, xenon,
8.5%, and helium, "bal.," i.e., 35.6%, plus "fairy dust, 0.0%".
(everyone knows that fairy dust doesn't weigh anything or take up any
volume... so "how much" fairy dust is needed is always a bit of a
problem. Too little, it doesn't work. Too much, well, the results are
too horrible to describe. Let's not go there.)
If the Papp Effect is real, it looks like the cat is out of the bag,
running around. There hasn't been time for someone to build and test
yet. I find it very strange that the kit doesn't include some mixed
fuel. That could be very expensive, to set up, buying minimum
quantities of fuel. Someone could provide a service, and make money
fairly, selling mixed fuel. Likewise, the mechanical parts could be
offered, and thus, with parts and fuel, someone would know what they
were getting into, and PasmERG could make a decent profit on all
this. $350 for the electronics? They have a *very* high profit margin
there. That's okay, it's certainly not illegal. They may be
custom-making the electronics. This could be done and sold for a
profit at $50, easily.
(I recall reading somewhere that fuel might be supplied by someone.
Is this true?)
(Some enterprising soul could make a little money here selling a
"plasma test cylinder." It's silly to have everyone building their
own. That cylinder might be described in a patent, but it isn't
patentable, I'm sure. The whole engine concept, with electronics and
fuel mixture, could be, though the original Papp patents have
expired. Papp International -- Plasmerg -- has new patents, but the
viability of those remains to be shown. Papp really screwed everyone
over by his actions and refusals. The story of Bob Rohner as to why
they didn't pursue the technology when they had the rights is
self-serving and misleading. Fuel was not cheap at that point, the
price was going up, with no ceiling in sight. Even a simple
demonstration kit would have been revolutionary. As this one will be
if it works.)
The electronics, operated by a pushbutton, together with a recipe for
the fuel, if they demonstrate the effect, are enough.
Popcorn, anyone?
