Hi Jack,
Keep at it. It's a learning experience and probably one of the most
humbling simple experiments you can do. I remember very well the issue of
the alligator clips rusting and corroding over anode, and wondering "What
did that do?", What's in the plating of the alligator clip? Do you run
the cell covered, not covered. If I cover it, do H + O recombine, and at
what rate?
I spent most of my time after seeing the "effect" developing an automated
data acquisition system. The end result was good, I had automated 2
thermistor readings and a Geiger counter on a Sanyo 550 (IBM 8086 sort-of
clone) but not voltage or current. This was around 1992. I wanted to have
the whole system automated, just like the National Instruments show. Just
like P&F and all of the other electrolysis CF experiments, I decided to
build a calorimeter based on a large insulated tank of water (a 7.5 gallon
starfoam cooler) lined with reflective Millard, with the water circulated,
the top sealed (and also reflective) and the CF cell immersed in the bath.
The idea was to treat the Cell as if it was a resistive heater, and
measure the water bath heat as it accumulated heat from the cell. If the
effect was large enough, it should easily overwhelm P=IV as the power
accumulated in the thermally sealed bath.
The goal was to try B11 + p -> 3He4 + 8.7 MeV as a cold fusion surface
effect. Could that happen? I really don't know.
Best Regards,
Chuck
On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 9:52 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi Chuck,
>
> My experiment has ended for today with my power supply blowing out. I
> think my last test was not a good test of the nickel vs copper. I was
> using what looks like a chrome plated alligator type clip as the anode in
> both. I can see where that could have been a problem as well as I don't
> know what it was plated with. Also, I think it's not a good idea to use
> the same power supply for two cells as it seems more current may flow one
> direction than the other? I didn't use any W in the copper cathode cell
> (only in the one with the nickels).
>
> Now here's the really curious thing. In the copper cell, the 10 ml of
> borax is gone. I tried to mix it in at the beginning, but it just settled
> back to the bottom. Some kind of chemistry was taking place. Perhaps
> producing boric acid? Some of it also appears to have collected in/on the
> anode.
>
> I'm using two small measuring glasses (150 ml capacity filled to 110 ml).
> Before the power supply blew after 3 1/2 hrs the copper cell hit 129.7F
> and the nickel cell was at 79.1. The nickel cell peaked out at 92.1 after
> 1 hour and slowly dropped. I think it was a current flow problem as those
> results for the nickel cell were not consistent with my first run.
>
> Also, for anyone trying to replicate should head the following. If you
> use a cooking thermometer, do not leave it in the cell while you are
> running the experiment. I did this with my first one, and it permanently
> altered the readout making it 20F too high because of some deposit on the
> metal that could not be removed.
>
> Jack
>
>
>
> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 6:29 PM, Chuck Sites <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Jack,
>>
>> Congratulations, your report is exactly in lines with what I saw
>> with Ni(+) Cu(-) in my jar experiments. That was typically 100ml of H2O
>> and a 3gm Na2B4O7 solution. Once the Ni coin breaks down just a little, in
>> a constant voltage system, the current would jump up and the Ni coin would
>> get hot. (Your counter electrode, should be the temp of the solution).
>> Those quick calculations are interesting because your doing it like I did,
>> running an open system, no recombiner, and your system has
>> hit equilibrium. The fun part is that it will go for days like that, as
>> long as the water is replenished. Eventually you may need to add a little
>> more electrolyte.
>>
>> I know there is some complex boron chemistry going on with metal oxides
>> forming as a result which is typical of electrolysis. What is unusual
>> about this as far as Joule heating, or Ohmic heating, is that in a typical
>> wire,
>> heating occurs in a location where current is pinched where Q is
>> proportional to I^2 R. So typically as in a Nichrome wire, it's a small
>> diameter, and slightly higher resistance than the feeding electrodes. Here
>> you have this really large hunk of metal (the Ni coin) and the feeding wire
>> is smaller than the metal. It just such a large are
>> for resistive heating.
>>
>> I just read your update with the Cu coin as the (+) heating more. What
>> is your counter electrode material. Tungsten? It maybe, W is also one of
>> those interesting H absorbing materials. W was always on the todo
>> list though. Keep going, I'm really interested in seeing what you get.
>> Also, could you guess as to the size of your jar dimensions and weight.
>> A typical glass jar also has a pretty good size heat capacity.
>>
>> Best Regards,
>> Chuck
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 3:34 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> So that's 141.7g of water. It was an open container so heat freely
>>> dissipated and I would also presume that power was also going into
>>> electrolysis in addition to heating. So, based on Arnaud's calculations,
>>> we can't rule out purely electrical heating. I'll report on the next
>>> experiment which involves a control cell using pennies instead of nickels
>>> and no thoriated tungsten. I have two identical cells that I have filled
>>> with equal amounts of borax and water and will be powering from the same
>>> supply (one has thoriated tungsten/nickels and the other with
>>> pennies/copper).
>>>
>>>
>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 2:10 PM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>
>>>> It was 5 oz of water. I shut it down after the temp maxed out at 158F.
>>>> On Oct 1, 2012 12:29 PM, "Arnaud Kodeck" <[email protected]>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> **
>>>>> Find here some simple calorimetry calculations :
>>>>>
>>>>> Electrical energy given to the system : 4.33 hours @ 12 watt = 187056
>>>>> J => 44677 cal
>>>>>
>>>>> To rise the temp from 55 F to 146 F, the system need 50 cal/g of
>>>>> water. (Assuming electrodes and recipient are negligible)
>>>>>
>>>>> Assuming no loss of heat by dissipation, the electrical energy
>>>>> released will rise the temperature of 44677 / 50 = 884g of water.
>>>>>
>>>>> If Jack use more than 884g of water, we are sure that there is another
>>>>> energy source (chemical or other).
>>>>>
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> *From:* ken deboer [mailto:[email protected]]
>>>>> *Sent:* lundi 1 octobre 2012 19:00
>>>>> *To:* [email protected]
>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [Vo]:Replication of Chuck Sites Nickel/Boron Experiment
>>>>>
>>>>> Very interesting, indeed. How much water are you using? If
>>>>> everything were 100% efficient, and you were inputting 12 watts/hr = ~40
>>>>> btu/hr, over 3 hours you would have 120 btu, which theoretically could
>>>>> raise 1 pound of water 120 F.
>>>>> Best regards, kend
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:38 AM, Jack Cole <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Thanks Jed, glad to do it.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Small update:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 7 am Temp 55F Start
>>>>>> 9 am Temp 110F
>>>>>> 10 am Temp 129F
>>>>>> 11:20 am Temp 146F
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Outside temp started at 55F and was at 57F at 11:20 am.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'll keep running until the temp levels off. At that point, I'll
>>>>>> work on setting up a control cell. The water has turned brown, so I
>>>>>> presume something is also happening with the copper (either in the
>>>>>> nickels
>>>>>> or the exposed portion of copper wire attaching to the electrode).
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Mon, Oct 1, 2012 at 10:00 AM, Jed Rothwell
>>>>>> <[email protected]>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for doing this!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> - Jed
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>>
>
