At 04:03 AM 12/25/2012, Jojo Jaro wrote:
I am doing this is highlight a problem. If you call for the
termination of this thread, you need to call for the termination of
all off-topic threads. I believe that is only fair.
There is no general "off-topic" problem. Judging posts as "off-topic"
is, itself, hazardous, and is impractical. Most mature mailing lists
create a community, that chats a bit, including off topic chatting.
That's not the problem here. The problem is trolling for outrage.
There has been some level of teasing of Jojo Jaro, but trolls
*always* attract some level of that.
As I've reported in posts covering the history of these
conversations, and to respond to David, Jojo originally attracted my
respose to his "information" about the location of Obama's birth. I
have a habit of taking fringe positions seriously, of giving them
some benefit of the doubt, so I actually researched this, and
reported what I found which was essentially that what Jojo was
telling us was very old hat, claims that had been made, and
thoroughly debunked, with Obama having provided -- without any legal
necessity -- what was called the "archival" certificate. He had to go
through a special process to get that, the Hawaii department of
public records does not ordinarily provide it.
Jojo then began attacking me, on many fronts. At one point, he loudly
"resigned" from the list, as a "last comment." I responded, and left
it at that. (If you want to make a "last comment," that doesn't
prohibit the other person from responding! Making a "last comment" as
a way to shut people up is obviousy abusive."
Jojo came back and continued. So then I said that I was going to stop
responding, and I did, for quite a long period of time. When he kept
it up, kept mentioning the Moon God thing, kept referring to me as a
"self-declared expert" and whatever he could think of as something
that might be irritating, and when he turned to others and similarly
attacked them, I started to comment again, simply to document the history.
He's promising to stop responding if others respond. That did not
work, because he doesn't stop. He makes very few posts here which are
on-topic. The people he tangles with are regular posters, who
occasionally comment off-topic. He obviously watches the list for
anything he disagrees with, and dives in with extreme commentary,
most of the time.
It was pointed out by others: he's trying to "win" here, by forcing
those he dislikes to "shut up."
There is little problem here with merely "off-topic" posts. Yes, this
thread has gone on and on. I continue to participate in it for two
reasons: I find the research interesting, and, in fact, sometimes I
come across ideas and material that do relate to our list purpose.
For example, how do we know what is true? How do people become
attached to ideas and stuck on them? That's very relevant to fringe
science, in both directions.
For why should the Vortex-L membership only be subjected to
off-topic threads you consider "interesting". In other words, why
are you the arbiter of what off-topic posts should be discuss or
not? They are all off-topic and should be banished from Vortex-L
forever. Isn't that what I've always asked for only to be
insulted, ridiculed and ignored? No offense intended, just asking
your thinking process on this.
I consider this discussion with Lomax interesting. So, on that
aspect, this thread has as much right to be discussed in Vortex as
any other off-topic thread you consider "interesting". Or are you
saying that because you are an longer time member of Vortex-L, that
you opinion carries more weight than mine? Isn't that what the
chronic off-topic posters are essentially saying?
It's all or nothing my friend. No off-topic threads or ALL
off-topic threads allowed. Am I not being fair? Is what I'm saying unfair?
To me, "fair" is not the question, but, yes, Jojo, what you are
saying is not fair, because it's radically imbalanced. You have
*promised* to be disruptive here until off-topic posting stops.
That's *coercive*. And it may well be met with a coercive response, I
don't know, it's up to the list owner. I am *not* the list owner.
One recommendation I'd make to him though: appoint some additional
moderators. I would never maintain a list like this, myself, without
having co-moderators, people to watch the list in addition to me, who
can make ad-hoc decisions. As list owner, I can overrule these,
though my own penchant is to consult the community before taking any
permanent administrative action (actually, the only decisions that
are permanent are post deletion from archive, and I don't know that
the owner here can do that.) I might put someone on moderation, as an
alternative to banning, and at the same time, inform the list I'm
doing that, and channel discussion to a place where it won't be
disruptive. There are lots of options.
Generally, I maintain the position of owner as trustee for the
community. And on many other lists, where I'm an owner, I have
another owner, who can then take over if something happens to me.
(And there are other ways to handle this.)
No more original comment below.
Jojo
PS, Of course, I am ready and prepared to stop all off-topic threads
that I participate in, but only if there is a corresponding
commitment from other chronis off-topic posters to moderate
incessant off-topic posts.
----- Original Message -----
From: <mailto:[email protected]>David Roberson
To: <mailto:[email protected]>[email protected]
Sent: Tuesday, December 25, 2012 1:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Vo]:[OT] Moon God, Dozens of wives, and marriageable age
Guys, I would very much prefer it if this thread were to be
terminated. It is apparent that there will never be agreement
between the parties involved in the dispute and highly unlikely that
one or the other will modify his beliefs. Why not just shake hands
(electronically of course) and change the subject to LENR or
something else more interesting.
I suspect that I am not the only one with this opinion.
Dave
