On May 5, 2013, at 11:52 AM, Eric Walker wrote:
On Sun, May 5, 2013 at 7:10 AM, Jones Beene <jone...@pacbell.net>
wrote:
Whereas Hagelstein’s model, when all is said and done, is an
invention created to match an experimental outcome (which it does)
but with no precedent in physical reality.
I think such models are called "phenomenological models" -- my
impression is that the idea is to try to accurately capture the
behavior you're seeing at the macro-level and then go from there.
This seems like a solid approach, provided you don't jump to
conclusions about what is going on under the hood. My possible
issues with Hagelstein's models are not that they're
phenomenological, it's that they don't seem to be very good,
phenomenologically speaking. He wants to use a harmonic oscillator,
and what I see in the experimental data is chaotic behavior, with
large transients here and there and then longer quiescent periods.
Has anyone followed Hagelstein's recent papers who can describe the
behavior one would expect to see from his models? Perhaps they are
chaotic now.
Peter has two conflicts with reality. He propose the process occurs in
metal atom vacancies, which are not present in significant
concentration in PdD and he has to convert the phonons to photons to
be consistent with observations. This conversion process is hard to
justify. The model makes no useful predictions as far as I can tell
and is very hard to understand and justify. However, the model is an
amazing mathematical creation.
In one of his abstracts he offers a motivation for his general
approach, which is to try to subdivide a large (24 MeV) quantum into
tiny pieces using a "coherent energy exchange": "excess heat is
thought to have a nuclear origin due to the amount of energy
produced, yet there are no commensurate energetic particles". Ed
has also said that the fast particles are not commensurate with what
one would expect for excess heat. I would like to know more about
the basis for this conclusion. There are obviously few neutrons.
But when you look at the CR-39 experiments, there are fast protons
and alphas. And occasionally there is a "hamburger" exposure, where
the chip is filled with pits. Abd wants to set aside those
instances as unreliable data points, but I think he's setting aside
evidence in doing so.
The very small number of alpha and neutrons can be explained without
assuming CF is the cause. Trying to fit all observations to CF,
especially those seen at very low rate, I believe is a mistake. My
model can explain these observations much easier.
Obviously when you have a system contained within a glass or metal
housing, whether the system is electrolytic or gas phase, the fast
particles are not going to escape. So the evidence one way or the
other on whether there are fast particles commensurate with excess
heat seems to hinge upon two points, as far as I can tell -- (1) the
equivocal CR-39 experiments, and (2) insufficient brehmstrahlung and
hot-fusion neutrons that one might expect as side channels. Can
someone elaborate on anything I've missed here or gotten mixed up?
Fast particles make secondary radiation that can be easily detected.
Peter made calculations showing the energy limit required to avoid
detecton. You should read his papers. Here is a list.
1. Hagelstein, P.L., Rates for neutron and tritium
production in coherent D-D fusion. 1989.
2. Hagelstein, P.L., A simple model for coherent D-D fusion
in the presence of a lattice. 1989.
3. Hagelstein, P.L., Phonon interactions in coherent
fusion. 1989.
4. Hagelstein, P.L. Coherent fusion theory. in Winter
Meeting of The Am. Soc. of Mechan. Eng. 1989. San Francisco, CA,. p.
5. Hagelstein, P.L., A smple model for coherent D-D fusion
in the presence of a lattice. 1989.
6. Hagelstein, P.L., Rates for neutron and tritium
production in coherent D-D fusion. 1989.
7. Hagelstein, P.L., Phonon interactions in coherent
fusion. 1989.
8. Hagelstein, P.L. Coherent fusion mechanisms. in
Anomalous Nuclear Effects in Deuterium/Solid Systems, "AIP Conference
Proceedings 228". 1990. Brigham Young Univ., Provo, UT: American
Institute of Physics, New York. p. 734.
9. Hagelstein, P.L. Status of coherent fusion theory. in
The First Annual Conference on Cold Fusion. 1990. University of Utah
Research Park, Salt Lake City, Utah: National Cold Fusion Institute.
p. 99.
10. Hagelstein, P.L., Coherent fusion theory. J. Fusion
Energy, 1990. 9: p. 451.
11. Hagelstein, P.L. Coherent and semi-coherent neutron
transfer reactions. in Second Annual Conference on Cold Fusion, "The
Science of Cold Fusion". 1991. Como, Italy: Societa Italiana di
Fisica, Bologna, Italy. p. 205.
12. Hagelstein, P.L. Coherent and semi-coherent neutron
transfer reactions. in Third International Conference on Cold Fusion,
"Frontiers of Cold Fusion". 1992. Nagoya Japan: Universal Academy
Press, Inc., Tokyo, Japan. p. 297.
13. Hagelstein, P.L., Coherent and semicoherent neutron
transfer reactions I: The interaction Hamiltonian. Fusion Technol.,
1992. 22: p. 172.
14. Hagelstein, P.L. and S. Kaushik. Neutron transfer
reactions. in Fourth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 1993.
Lahaina, Ma: Electric Power Research Institute 3412 Hillview Ave.,
Palo Alto, CA 94304. p. 10.
15. Hagelstein, P.L. Lattice-induced atomic and nuclear
reactions. in Fourth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 1993.
Lahaina, Maui: Electric Power Research Institute 3412 Hillview Ave.,
Palo Alto, CA 94304. p. 11.
16. Hagelstein, P.L., Coherent and semicoherent neutron
transfer reactions III: Phonon frequency shifts. Fusion Technol.,
1993. 23: p. 353.
17. Hagelstein, P.L., Summary of ICCF3 in Nagoya, Feb. 16,
1993. 1993.
18. Hagelstein, P.L. Update on neutron transfer reactions.
in 5th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 1995. Monte-Carlo,
Monaco: IMRA Europe, Sophia Antipolis Cedex, France. p. 327.
19. Kennel, E.B., P.L. Hagelstein, and L.D. Smullin, Gamma and X-
ray measurements in electromagnetically active systems. 1995.
20. Hagelstein, P.L. Anomalous energy transfer between
nuclei and the lattice. in Sixth International Conference on Cold
Fusion, Progress in New Hydrogen Energy. 1996. Lake Toya, Hokkaido,
Japan: New Energy and Industrial Technology Development Organization,
Tokyo Institute of Technology, Tokyo, Japan. p. 382.
21. Tanzella, F.L., M.C.H. McKubre, and P.L. Hagelstein.
Methods for observing anomalous energy transfer in solids. in The
Seventh International Conference on Cold Fusion. 1998. Vancouver,
Canada: ENECO, Inc., Salt Lake City, UT. p. 393.
22. Hagelstein, P.L. Anomalous energy transfer. in The
Seventh International Conference on Cold Fusion. 1998. Vancouver,
Canada: ENECO, Inc., Salt Lake City, UT. p. 140.
23. McKubre, M.C.H., et al. The emergence of a coherent
explanation for anomalies observed in D/Pd and H/Pd system: evidence
for 4He and 3He production. in 8th International Conference on Cold
Fusion. 2000. Lerici (La Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society,
Bologna, Italy. p. 3-10.
24. Hagelstein, P.L. A unified model for anomalies in metal
deuterides. in 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000.
Lerici (La Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy.
p. 363.
25. Sinha, K.P. and P.L. Hagelstein. Electron screening in metal
deuterides. in 8th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2000.
Lerici (La Spezia), Italy: Italian Physical Society, Bologna, Italy.
p. 369.
26. Sinha, K.P. and P.L. Hagelstein, Electron screening in metal
deuterides. Trans. Am. Nucl. Soc., 2000. 83: p. 368.
27. Hagelstein, P.L. A unified model for anomalies in metal
deuterides. in The 9th International Conference on Cold Fusion,
Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2002. Tsinghua Univ., Beijing,
China: Tsinghua Univ. Press. p. 121.
28. Hagelstein, P.L. Unified phonon-coupled SU(N) models
for anomalies in metal deuterides. in Tenth International Conference
on Cold Fusion. 2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co.
p. 837.
29. McKubre, M.C., et al. The need for triggering in cold
fusion reactions. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion.
2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 199.
30. Hagelstein, P.L. Thermal to electric energy conversion.
in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2003. Cambridge, MA:
World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 305.
31. Keeney, F., et al. Charged-particle emissions from
metal deuterides. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion.
2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 509.
32. Keeney, F., et al. Neutron emissions from metal
deuterides. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2003.
Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 525.
33. Hagelstein, P.L. Resonant tunneling and resonant
excitation transfer. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion.
2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 871.
34. Chaudhary, I. and P.L. Hagelstein. Free-body nuclear
wave functions. in Tenth International Conference on Cold Fusion.
2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co. p. 887.
35. Chaudhary, I. and P.L. Hagelstein. Coherence factors in
many-particle three-level systems. in Tenth International Conference
on Cold Fusion. 2003. Cambridge, MA: World Scientific Publishing Co.
p. 903.
36. Hagelstein, P.I., A DEVICE, SYSTEM AND METHOD FOR
INCREASING MULTIPLE OCCUPANCY OF HYDROGEN ISOTOPES IN A HOST LATTICE.
2003: USA.
37. Hagelstein, P.L., et al. New physical effects in metal
deuterides. in DoE Evaluation of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions. 2004.
Washington, DC: www.LENR-CANR.org. p.
38. Hagelstein, P.L., et al. New physical effects in metal
deuterides. Report of the review on low energy nuclear reactions, in
"Review of Low Energy Nuclear Reactions", DoE, Office of Sci.,
Washington, DC, 2004. in 11th International Conference on Cold Fusion.
2004. Marseilles, France: World Scientific Co. p. 23.
39. Hagelstein, P.L. Phonon-exchange models: Some new
results. in 11th International Conference on Cold Fusion. 2004.
Marseilles, France: World Scientific Co. p. 743.
40. Hagelstein, P.L. Models for anomalies in condensed
matter deuterides. in Condensed Matter Nuclear Science, ICCF-12. 2005.
Yokohama, Japan: World Scientific. p. 441.
41. Chaudhary, I. and P.L. Hagelstein. Four-body RST
general nuclear wavefunctions and matrix elements. in Condensed Matter
Nuclear Science, ICCF-12. 2005. Yokohama, Japan: World Scientific. p.
527.
42. Letts, D. and P.I. Hagelstein. Simulation of optical phonons
in deuterated palladium. in 14th International Conference on Condensed
Matter Nuclear Science. 2008. Washington, DC. p. 333-337.
43. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Models revelant to
excess heat production in Fleischmann-Pons experiments, in ACS
Symposium Series 998, Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Sourcebook, J.
Marwan and S.B. Krivit, Editors. 2008, American Chemical Society:
Washington, DC. p. 249-267.
44. Letts, D., D. Cravens, and P.I. Hagelstein, Thermal changes
in palladium deuteride induced by laser beat frequencies, in ACS
Symposium Series 998, Low-Energy Nuclear Reactions Sourcebook, J.
Marwan and S.B. Krivit, Editors. 2008, American Chemical Society:
Washington, DC. p. 337.
45. Hagelstein, P.I., M.E. Melich, and R.E. Johnson. Input
to Theory from Experiment in the Fleischmann-Pons Effect. in 14th
International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2008.
Washington DC. p. 586-595.
46. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Electron mass shift
in nonthermal systems. J. Phys. B, 2008. 41: p. 125001.
47. Letts, D., D. Cravens, and P.L. Hagelstein, Dual Laser
Stimulation and Optical Phonons in Palladium Deuteride, in Low-Energy
Nuclear Reactions Sourcebook Volume 2, J. Marwan and S. Krivit,
Editors. 2009, Oxford University Press.
48. Tanzella, F., et al. Triggered energy release from
palladium deuteride. in ICCF-15. 2009. Rome. p.
49. Hagelstein, P.I., M.C. McKubre, and F. Tanzella.
Electrochemical models for the Fleischmann-Pons experiment. in 15th
International Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2009.
Rome, Italy: ENEA, Italy. p. 16-21.
50. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary. Arguments for
dideuterium near monovacancies in PdD. in 15th International
Conference on Condensed Matter Nuclear Science. 2009. Rome, Italy:
ENEA, Italy. p. 282-287.
51. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Energy Exchange
Using Spin-Boson Models with Infinite Loss. 2010.
52. Hagelstein, P.I., Constraints on energetic particles in
the Fleischmann–Pons experiment. Naturwissenschaften, 2010. 97(4): p.
345.
53. Marwan, J., et al., A New Look at Low-Energy Nuclear
Reaction (LENR) Research: A Response to Shanahan. J. Environ. Monit.,
2010.
54. Hagelstein, P.L., Neutron Yield for Energetic Deuterons
in PdD and in D2O. J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2010. 3: p. 35-40.
55. Hagelstein, P.L., Simple Parameterizations of the
Deuteron–Deuteron Fusion Cross Sections. J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci.,
2010. 3: p. 31-34.
56. Hagelstein, P.I., Secondary Neutron Yield in the
Presence of Energetic Alpha Particles in PdD. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2010. 3: p. 41-49.
57. Hagelstein, P.I., On the connection between Ka X-rays
and energetic alpha particles in Fleischmann–Pons experiments. J.
Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2010. 3: p. 50-58.
58. Hagelstein, P.I., D. Letts, and D. Cravens, Terahertz
difference frequency response of PdD in two-laser experiments. J.
Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2010. 3: p. 59-76.
59. Hagelstein, P.I. and D. Letts, Analysis of some
experimental data from the two-laser experiment. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2010. 3: p. 77-92.
60. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Energy Exchange
Using Spin-Boson Models with Infinite Loss. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2011. 4: p. 202-212.
61. Letts, D. and P.I. Hagelstein, Modified Szpak protocol for
excess heat. J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2012. 6: p. 44-54.
62. Hagelstein, P.I., Bird’s eye view of phonon models for
excess heat in the Fleischmann–Pons experiment. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2012. 6: p. 169-180.
63. Karabut, A.B., E.A. Karabut, and P.I. Hagelstein,
Spectral and Temporal Characteristics of X-ray Emission from Metal
Electrodes in a High-current Glow Discharge. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2012. 6: p. 217-240.
64. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Including Nuclear
Degrees of Freedom in a Lattice Hamiltonian. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2012. 7: p. 35-50.
65. Swartz, M.R. and P.I. Hagelstein. Demonstration of Excess
Heat from the JET Energy NANOR® at MIT. in 012 LANR/CF IAP Course at
MIT. 2012. Cambridge MA,. p.
66. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Coupling between a
deuteron and a lattice. arXiv.physics.gen-ph, 2012. 1204.2159v1.
67. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Pulse and Amplitude
Approximation for the Lossy Spin–Boson Model. J. Cond. Matter Nucl.
Sci., 2012. 9: p. 30-49.
68. Hagelstein, P.I. and I. Chaudhary, Coupling between a
Deuteron and a Lattice. J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2012. 9: p. 50-63.
69. Hagelstein, P.I., Lecture at MIT. 2013.
70. Hagelstein, P.I. and I.U. Chaudhary, Central and Tensor
Contributions to the Phonon-exchange Matrix Element for the D2/4He
Transition. J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2013. 11: p. 15-58.
71. Hagelstein, P.I. and I.U. Chaudhary, Lossy Spin–boson
Model with an Unstable Upper State and Extension to N-level Systems.
J. Cond. Matter Nucl. Sci., 2013. 11: p. 59-92.
Ed Storms
Eric
