On Jun 6, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
Ed,
On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Edmund Storms
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Jun 4, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
Ed,
On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Edmund Storms
<[email protected]> wrote:
On Jun 2, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Harry Veeder wrote:
On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]
> wrote:
On May 30, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Harry Veeder wrote:
On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]
> wrote:
Harry, imagine balls held in line by springs. If the end ball is
pull away with a force and let go, a resonance wave will pass
down the line. Each ball will alternately move away and then
toward its neighbor. If outside energy is supplied, this
resonance will continue. If not, it will damp out. At this stage,
this is a purely mechanical action that is well understood.
In the case of the Hydroton, the outside energy is temperature.
The temperature creates random vibration of atoms, which is
focused along the length of the molecule. Again, this is normal
and well understood behavior.
The strange behavior starts once the nuclei can get within a
critical distance of each other as a result of the resonance.
This distance is less than is possible in any other material
because of the high concentration of negative charge that can
exist in this structure and environment. The barrier is not
eliminated. It is only reduced enough to allow the distance to
become small enough so that the two nuclei can "see" and respond.
The response is to emit a photon from each nuclei because this
process lowers the energy of the system.
Ed,
With each cycle energy of the system is only lowered if the
energy of the emitted photon is greater than the work done by the
"random vibration of atoms" on the system.
NO Harry!
Ed, I am trying to help you understand your model. I am not trying
to tear it down.
I know and I appreciate the effort. However, I want you to
accurately understand what I'm proposing. Only then can you add a
new insight. You are not accurately describing what I proposing.
There is no work done by the random vibrations. These are the
result of normal temperature. The photon is emitted from the
nucleus and carries with it the excess mass-energy of the nucleus.
Let us return to your ball and spring model of the hydroton and
assume an ideal spring which doesn't dissipate energy by getting
warm during compressions. If heat energy is the vibration of
atoms in the lattice, then the spring is compressed by atoms from
the lattice pushing on the spring. As the spring is compressed
work is done on the spring, however, the spring will eventually
bounce back to its original length so no net work is done on the
spring in the course of one oscillation. The oscillations will
repeat indefinitely with the same amplitude as long as the
temperature remains constant. However, in your model the spring
does not return to its original length. Now for sake argument
assume no photon is emitted. This means some work has been
performed on the spring, which means the spring has effectively
turned a little thermal energy into potential energy and thereby
slightly cooled the lattice. Now assume a photon is emitted. The
subsequent temperature of the lattice will depend on the energy of
this emitted photon. If the energy of the photon is less than the
work done (W) then the temperature of the lattice will not return
to the initial the temperature. The cycle can repeat until the
protons fuse but the temperature will gradually decline and the
end result can aptly be described as cold fusion! On the other
hand if the energy of the photon is greater than W then the
temperature of the lattice will be greater after fusion.
No analogy is perfect and you are extending my effort to get one
idea understood and applying it to a different idea, which is not
correct. The vibration is like a periodic switch acting on the
nucleus. The vibration itself does not release energy. It has no
friction. Energy is totally conserved during the vibration.
However, the vibration causes the nuclei to emit a proton because
the vibration periodically causes them to get within a critical
distance of each other.
Getting closer _and_ staying closer means work has been done on the
system since there is a mutual force of repulsion keeping them
apart. The kinetic energy of the lattice is transformed into
potential energy of repulsion according to the principle of CoE.
Whether the temperature of the environment cools, stays constant or
warms depends on whether the energy of the emitted photon is less
than / equal to / greater than the work done. Your model at the
present time is silent on these possibilities.
Harry, you don't seem to understand the concept of work. Consider
that atoms in a lattice are held together by a force. They vibrate
and this vibration contains energy as the heat capacity. Is a piece
of salt doing work as it sits in the salt shaker? No, the material
is doing no work even though a force is present and atoms are
vibrating. Steady-state conditions, of which this is an example, do
not involve work. Work is based on a net change in position as
result of applied force. The salt sits still. It does not move.
There is no net change in position of the atoms. If they move in one
direction, they immediately move just as much in the opposite
direction. If you want to imagine work being done during the first
motion, it is immediately undone by the second motion. No net
change has resulted. The system is fixed in space and it is not
doing work.
I agree this the case when the average separation distance between
the protons is steady.
Consequently, the NiH or PdD are doing no work by simply existing.
On the other hand, if the NAE forms, then energy can be released
from the nucleus as an emitted photon. This energy was trapped
before the photon was released. Once photons are released, they are
gradually absorbed by the surrounding material as they pass through,
thereby causing local heating. This heating can be made to do work.
No work was done before this heating occurred.
Hypothetically speaking, do you agree that if the protons were to
gradually get closer without photon emission that the lattice would
tend to cool ?
Protons can not get closer for no reason. You have to ask what is
causing the reduction in distance. The distance can be reduced by
applying pressure, which causes the temperature to increase because
work is being done on the system. The distance can be reduced by
cooling, but in this case, the cooling is a cause rather than a
result. A phase change can be caused, which will release energy.
Events only occur spontaneously in a system because energy is
released. Any event that would actually happen to bring the protons
closer MUST release energy. Otherwise, it will not happen.
Ed Storms
Harry
