Is there some way to be a part of this that does not involve dozens of email messages per waking day to my account? Is there not some way to make an online forum?
----------------------------------------------- "I write a little. I erase a lot." - Chopin --- On Thu, 6/6/13, Edmund Storms <[email protected]> wrote: From: Edmund Storms <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [Vo]:Of NAEs and nothingness... To: [email protected] Cc: "Edmund Storms" <[email protected]> Date: Thursday, June 6, 2013, 7:22 PM On Jun 6, 2013, at 1:30 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: Ed, On Wed, Jun 5, 2013 at 9:29 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]> wrote: On Jun 4, 2013, at 11:11 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: Ed, On Sun, Jun 2, 2013 at 10:45 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]> wrote: On Jun 2, 2013, at 12:15 AM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Fri, May 31, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]> wrote: On May 30, 2013, at 11:39 PM, Harry Veeder wrote: On Thu, May 30, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Edmund Storms <[email protected]> wrote: Harry, imagine balls held in line by springs. If the end ball is pull away with a force and let go, a resonance wave will pass down the line. Each ball will alternately move away and then toward its neighbor. If outside energy is supplied, this resonance will continue. If not, it will damp out. At this stage, this is a purely mechanical action that is well understood. In the case of the Hydroton, the outside energy is temperature. The temperature creates random vibration of atoms, which is focused along the length of the molecule. Again, this is normal and well understood behavior. The strange behavior starts once the nuclei can get within a critical distance of each other as a result of the resonance. This distance is less than is possible in any other material because of the high concentration of negative charge that can exist in this structure and environment. The barrier is not eliminated. It is only reduced enough to allow the distance to become small enough so that the two nuclei can "see" and respond. The response is to emit a photon from each nuclei because this process lowers the energy of the system. Ed, With each cycle energy of the system is only lowered if the energy of the emitted photon is greater than the work done by the "random vibration of atoms" on the system. NO Harry! Ed, I am trying to help you understand your model. I am not trying to tear it down. I know and I appreciate the effort. However, I want you to accurately understand what I'm proposing. Only then can you add a new insight. You are not accurately describing what I proposing. There is no work done by the random vibrations. These are the result of normal temperature. The photon is emitted from the nucleus and carries with it the excess mass-energy of the nucleus. Let us return to your ball and spring model of the hydroton and assume an ideal spring which doesn't dissipate energy by getting warm during compressions. If heat energy is the vibration of atoms in the lattice, then the spring is compressed by atoms from the lattice pushing on the spring. As the spring is compressed work is done on the spring, however, the spring will eventually bounce back to its original length so no net work is done on the spring in the course of one oscillation. The oscillations will repeat indefinitely with the same amplitude as long as the temperature remains constant. However, in your model the spring does not return to its original length. Now for sake argument assume no photon is emitted. This means some work has been performed on the spring, which means the spring has effectively turned a little thermal energy into potential energy and thereby slightly cooled the lattice. Now assume a photon is emitted. The subsequent temperature of the lattice will depend on the energy of this emitted photon. If the energy of the photon is less than the work done (W) then the temperature of the lattice will not return to the initial the temperature. The cycle can repeat until the protons fuse but the temperature will gradually decline and the end result can aptly be described as cold fusion! On the other hand if the energy of the photon is greater than W then the temperature of the lattice will be greater after fusion. No analogy is perfect and you are extending my effort to get one idea understood and applying it to a different idea, which is not correct. The vibration is like a periodic switch acting on the nucleus. The vibration itself does not release energy. It has no friction. Energy is totally conserved during the vibration. However, the vibration causes the nuclei to emit a proton because the vibration periodically causes them to get within a critical distance of each other. Getting closer _and_ staying closer means work has been done on the system since there is a mutual force of repulsion keeping them apart. The kinetic energy of the lattice is transformed into potential energy of repulsion according to the principle of CoE. Whether the temperature of the environment cools, stays constant or warms depends on whether the energy of the emitted photon is less than / equal to / greater than the work done. Your model at the present time is silent on these possibilities. Harry, you don't seem to understand the concept of work. Consider that atoms in a lattice are held together by a force. They vibrate and this vibration contains energy as the heat capacity. Is a piece of salt doing work as it sits in the salt shaker? No, the material is doing no work even though a force is present and atoms are vibrating. Steady-state conditions, of which this is an example, do not involve work. Work is based on a net change in position as result of applied force. The salt sits still. It does not move. There is no net change in position of the atoms. If they move in one direction, they immediately move just as much in the opposite direction. If you want to imagine work being done during the first motion, it is immediately undone by the second motion. No net change has resulted. The system is fixed in space and it is not doing work. I agree this the case when the average separation distance between the protons is steady. Consequently, the NiH or PdD are doing no work by simply existing. On the other hand, if the NAE forms, then energy can be released from the nucleus as an emitted photon. This energy was trapped before the photon was released. Once photons are released, they are gradually absorbed by the surrounding material as they pass through, thereby causing local heating. This heating can be made to do work. No work was done before this heating occurred. Hypothetically speaking, do you agree that if the protons were to gradually get closer without photon emission that the lattice would tend to cool ? Protons can not get closer for no reason. You have to ask what is causing the reduction in distance. The distance can be reduced by applying pressure, which causes the temperature to increase because work is being done on the system. The distance can be reduced by cooling, but in this case, the cooling is a cause rather than a result. A phase change can be caused, which will release energy. Events only occur spontaneously in a system because energy is released. Any event that would actually happen to bring the protons closer MUST release energy. Otherwise, it will not happen. Ed Storms Harry
