First of all I should mention that I don't speak for VOS/Interreality 3D -- which you seem to be assuming I do. I'm just an enthusiast following their progress and hoping to contribute a bit. I know what *I* want the metaverse to be, and I'm especially annoyed at the Lindens for attempting to appropriate the term and therefore am a bit sensitive to new press releases making hype about the "metaverse." And that's basically it.
I do think -- if they do it right -- Flux Worlds will be a useful product and an important step in open-standard virtual-worlds. But I maintain that it's an evolutionary step, not a revolutionary one -- and it's no reason not to aim farther ahead, or to abandon all alternate paths. Also, as far as I've seen, VOS isn't making lots of "publicity" or "preannouncements" -- Peter, Reed et al have been quietly working away for a few years trying to get a good base technology working from the ground up. And they *do* have running code. So I'm really not sure where a lot of your comments are coming from. -Ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Len Bullard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'VOS Discussion'" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: Re: [vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement > Because when you don't hit the mark, it causes people to throw the baby out > with the bathwater. Visions are ok, but lots of publicity and > preannouncements without the goods takes on the rep of being snake-oil. It > is a very bad strategy to get into a market with the aim of eliminating all > competitors. It screws the customers over. Netscape made that mistake and > they had their collective rears handed to them. > > To me, metaverse is just another word. It has no ownership and only as much > meaning as there is running code to support it. It's like saying 'Heaven' > and then setting up the dogma without the pragma. So no offense, but don't > get possessive with a term. Offering up suggestions is cool. It is cooler > to offer them with running code. > > He isn't exactly playing it safe. He has code, he spent the company money > to get it ready for open source, and he has the access to the standards > editors. Is it more of the same? We've had shared spaces but no standard > for hooking those up without buying Blaxxun Community server or any of the > various other products. All we've had is client standards. What Tony is > talking about is a protocol that can be implemented anywhere, and possibly a > reduction in costs for authors to have worlds that is ten percent of what it > costs to host at LL. That is significant. > > Now don't get me wrong, I am not quarreling with the VOS vision or the work. > I'm saying if he manages to get this done, it puts something on the street a > lot of people need, so stepping back and saying "that's not a true > Metaverse" is sour grapes. No one really knows what a metaverse is. You > know what you want it to be and that is cool, but not authoritative or a > reason to say he doesn't have one. We got in trouble by promising a science > fantasy world that couldn't be built then if ever, and it turned people off > to 3D on the web for ten years. > > If he gets shared spaces out there for ten percent of the cost of SL and > does it with content standards that enable the content to move around among > worlds without being hostage to POTS server farm market, that is an AMAZING > and very revolutionary accomplishment. Give him cred, then get back to your > vision and show the next new thing when it is ready to show. It's bad > karma to climb up the backs of other swimmers trying to stay afloat in the > same ocean. > > len > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > On Behalf Of Ken Taylor > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:59 PM > To: VOS Discussion > Subject: Re: [vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement > > I think that a basic open-standard shared-space server based on X3D is an > obvious and safe step -- Flux Worlds will probably be very successful at > what it does. But in my view, it doesn't bring us any closer to the > "metaverse" and I hate when people through that word around (ever since the > Lindens started doing so). To me it really is just more of the same -- we've > had shared space servers around almost as long as VRML itself, and we're not > that much closer to a true interconnected 3d "universe" on the internet. > Someone has to stop playing it safe for anything revolutionary to occur. > > But what's wrong with snowcrash-like thinking or visions anyway? ;) > > -Ken > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Len Bullard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "'VOS Discussion'" <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 7:47 PM > Subject: Re: [vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement > > > > We learned the really hard way in the early years of VRML to take it slow > > when trying to create something intended to scale out the Internet. I > won't > > quarrel with your requirements but I also am very leary of anything that > > reeks of Snowcrash-like thinking or visions. We got burned because that > > sort of thinking leads to expectations that are not just impossible in the > > short term, they aren't achievable. VRML still gets hammered in books, > > blogs and other articles for overreaching and not hitting those marks > > despite the fact that as a standard, ten years later, the content still > > works with current tools and a lot of current content sill works with old > > tools. That is what a standard has to achieve. Don't overdrive your > > headlights. It's a deadly mistake. > > > > So I'm not criticizing, but take it to the bank that Parisi knows better > > than anyone what the cost of overreaching is. Your 'metaverse' is worth > > having, but he is good ways down the path of making his work now and he > has > > been at the forefront of getting such standards built for over a decade > now. > > He isn't 'now' realizing; he paid the price in blood before most of the > rest > > of the current crowd was even trying. > > > > len > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Behalf Of Ken Taylor > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 9:10 PM > > To: VOS Discussion > > Subject: Re: [vos-d] Flux Worlds Server Announcement > > > > "Remember, the Metaverse needs open protocols. Without them... everything > > else is Just a World." > > > > I agree with this, and I'm glad that more and more people are realizing > it. > > However, though it's necessary, it's not sufficient to create the > > "metaverse." Some other requirements I would use to evaluate any > "metaverse" > > system: > > > > - Not only can anyone run a server, but they can easily interlink and > users > > can freely traverse the spaces between different servers, with the > potential > > for seamlessly connecting virtual spaces (eg, with portals). > > - The protocol is "future-proof" and can keep up with developments in > > technology and new ideas for interaction while maintaining backwards > > compatibility and a reasonable experience for those with hardware or > > bandwidth that can't support the latest-and-greatest > > - The protocol should support use creation and ownership of content, > > including a flexible scripting system, and the ability to transfer > > user-created content between servers. It should support collaborative > > editing and interaction with content. > > - The protocol is highly extensible through 3rd-party plugins and not > > "locked-in" to whatever the committee decided at standardization time was, > > for example, the best parameterized-avatar system/voice-chat > > system/streaming-video protocol/physics system/what-have-you. However, at > > the same time, there should be a robust "baseline" spec that allows all > > users to have a decent experience even with no plugins added. > > > > I definitely see VOS as having the potential to meet all these > requirements > > and beyond. I can't really tell from the press release how far they are > > planning to go with flux worlds. My guess is it's going to be > > yet-another-shared-space-server, this time based on X3D and easily > > integrated with web pages. > > > > So it'll probably be really neat, but not the metaverse yet ;) > > > > -Ken > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Tony Parisi" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: "'x3d-public list'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'www-vrml'" > > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Friday, March 30, 2007 2:08 PM > > Subject: [www-vrml] Flux Worlds Server Announcement > > > > > > > Folks, > > > > > > We've been up to something over here - thought I would tell you about it > > > before you heard it on the street. > > > > > > Media Machines has been developing a multi-user server based on a new > > > protocol that we intend to put out into the open. We have dubbed it > Simple > > > Wide Area Multi-User Protocol, or SWMP (pronounced "swamp"). The intent > is > > > to work with Web3D and potentially other organizations to standardize > > SWMP. > > > We will also supply a basic open source implementation. Our overriding > > > goal-- one that we are pursuing with total passion and vigor-- is to > > create > > > an open infrastructure for the Metaverse. > > > > > > We have wrapped SWMP into a server product called Flux Worlds. Flux > Worlds > > > is currently in alpha test. While the product is still several weeks > away > > > from beta test, we announced it yesterday with the goal of attracting > > early > > > signups for the beta. We are also integrating a prototype of the new X3D > > > networking nodes being developing by the Networking Working Group, right > > > into Flux Player. The results look promising. > > > > > > Anyway, here is the announcement. We would love to have you be part of > the > > > beta when it's ready! > > > > > > http://www.mediamachines.com/press/pressrelease-03292007.php > > > > > > Remember, the Metaverse needs open protocols. Without them... everything > > > else is Just a World. > > > > > > Yours virtually, > > > Tony > > > > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > Tony Parisi > 415-902-8002 > > > President/CEO > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Media Machines, Inc. > www.mediamachines.com > > > > > > Add 3D content to your web page with the Flux Player. > > > Go to www.mediamachines.com to upload and share your 3D content. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > vos-d mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > vos-d mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > vos-d mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d > > > > > _______________________________________________ > vos-d mailing list > [email protected] > http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d > _______________________________________________ vos-d mailing list [email protected] http://www.interreality.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/vos-d
