We've about beet this won to deth (bad spelling intended), but I would say 2 things came from all the responses to Patrick's post:
All of us find gold in the ores of the member's postings and we all wish that we were the only ones fishing in our own secret spots. I share Patrick's frustration in how popular this sport has become, and how tough it is to find the time to fish - only to have it marred by the stress of competing for space on our ever-shrinking natural resources. It's unlikely to go away, Patrick (Kent, et. al.) so we must all endeavor to expand our searches a little farther - walk a little farther up that river, or drive a little farther to find the solace and solitude we crave. Additionally, we must accept that others will probably be where we wish they weren't. Take that moment to talk to that fellow flyfisher and enjoy the camaraderie that is inherent to our "quiet sport". It usually takes a bit to get through the crust of some of the guys I meet on the river/lake, but it invariable turns to friendly conversation, sharing of flies, of a good microbrew back at the truck, and renewed appreciation for my fellow fisherman. I GREATLY appreciate your kind words, Eric. I re-read my posts about fighting fish in NZ and my "advice" to Tim on cutting off and retying flies on the Yak (like Tim really needs any advice!) In re-reading them, it seemed like I was trying to talk to neophytes, but that was not my intent. Eric's and other's posts indicate that they took those posts in the vein they were intended: Passing on what I had learned. As they say in AA: Take what works for you and throw away the rest. I definitely do that on this board. I take QUITE A LOT. I try to throw away the barbs (pun intended) and the elitist talk; we're viewed with suspicion enough by our bait-tossing, hardware-cranking, mouth-breathing cousins, we don't need to do that to each other. Patrick, your posts helped me get started with Pinks on the Lower Stilly. Did that add to the incredible crowding of that river during this year's banner Pink run? Probably, but that's the price we pay to fish here in the Seattle Metro area. We're in a stressful time right now; recession, high (relatively) unemployment, fear of our mail, fear of terrorism. Our retreat from all of this over the last few months has been flyfishing. It's not unexpected that we would stress over anything that appears to impact that. Patrick, my guess is that your expressions of frustrations are connected to this, and not really a diatribe against newbies or the "unwashed masses". Let's ALL try to be more accepting and understanding. To paraphrase the General on Good Morning Vietnam: "Besides, this is just fishing...." I hope to see ALL of you sometime on the water. Tight lines, loose drags and blue skies..... Sean [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Hey Patrick, get a life. > PS: this collection of words, from your message below (somewhere before the > illiterate comment) is not a proper sentence...more like a collection of > fragments, I think... "Perhaps waflyfishers could offer a second list to the > beginners so not to be bombarded the list with the same old questions and to > entice more information from those grungy old fly fishers." > > Sorry Richard, I take issue with your interpretation of Patrick's message. I > found it insulting and elitist (hope I am spelling all this correctly...). > > I have been flyfishing since the early 80's, so I am no beginner, but I am > certainly not as accomplished as many of the regulars on the list. Further, > I find it difficult to get out to the water more than a 5 or 6 times a year > (Tim, I don't know how you manage to get out so often!!!), so I relish the > opportunities to read about all of your experiences and techniques. When I > do go, I offer up what I can, even if it is just to say that the scenery was > great and I have no idea what was hatching...but it was about a size 16. If > Patrick's message is any indication, the "experts" are not interested in > reading about eagles soaring overhead and something hatching that looked > about size 16 or so, but, I recall a great report that included rams butting > heads so there must be others out there who recognize that there is more to > fishing than catching an 18" rainbow. > > Frankly, I am not interested in any of your favorite spots, private > locations, or special techniques for a particular location; I just like to be > out on the water somewhere, even if I don't catch any fish. If you feel > compelled to share that information with your friends and elite list members, > then you certainly know how to get in touch with them outside the list, and > you all (we all) know who you are...Les, Leland, Preston, Richard, Kent... > Those of us who are not as accomplished (at fishing, anyway) appreciate your > generosity and the opportunity to share in some of your knowledge, but (I > speak for myself here) we have no desire to corrupt your favorite spot. > > After fishing the Yakima twice in 7 days near Cle Elum, I posted my poor > results along with some (Patrick, no doubt would interpret them as boring, > repetitive beginner stuff) questions about tippet size, hatches. and whether > it was worth the extra 1/2 hour to get into the canyon. Those basic > questions resulted in some excellent information about holding the rod at 90 > degrees to the water to take advantage of shock absorbing properties (thanks > Sean) and reduce the chance of breaking off when a heavy fish strikes. More > recently, there was a post suggesting that you re-tie after catching 3 or 4 > fish since the tippet is likely to get chopped up and, possibly, snap under > stress. That is the kind of stuff that I take with me to the river, when I > am fortunate enough to go. > > It is disappointing to realize that some of you consider that leaching, or, > to put it another way, an opportunity to "entice more information from those > grungy old fly fishers." Perhaps some day we will have something more to > offer you; who knows, it might not even be related to fishing. > > Thanks to all of you who willingly post information in the spirit of > furthering the sport of flyfishing. > Eric Hausman > > In a message dated 11/2/01 11:03:23 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Subj: Re: where have all the reports gone? > > Date: 11/2/01 11:03:23 AM Pacific Standard Time > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (rderedfield) > > Reply-to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > I'm going to apologize for Patrick; I don't think his message was conveyed > > quite the way he intended. I don't know him at all, and although I can > > understand your response to his message, I read his message a little > > differently. > > > > These types of informational forums are challenging. Just because we all > > share the same waflyfishers.com service doesn't necessarily mean that we > are > > all obligaged to divulge all of our deepest and darkest secrets to each > other > > (which means our fishing spots and techniques). Folks want to obtain > > information as possible from these forums, but it's tough to figure out > when > > there is too much or too little information and participation. > > > > By example, a friend of mine and I took a prominent List person to a prime > > fishing spot last year, shared with him the techniques required for that > spot, > > species, and time of year, swore him to secrecy, and guess what? I know > of > > several List members, with whom he regularly fishes, who now 'just happen' > > to know the same spot and technique. This spot can only accommodate 2, > maybe > > 3 persons at one time. It's a bummer to go to 'your' fishing spot to find > it > > filled with folks who are friends of someone else with whom you 'shared' > the > > spot. > > > > And, as far as posting that type of information on the List, I think it's > > the rule, rather the exception, that there tends to be a herd effect to > > certain fishing spots after someone posts a favorable fishing report. I'm > > not saying it's bad, it's just the way it is. > > > > Les, Leland, Preston, et al, these are all great people that are generally > > very willing to help people and provide information, but these guys have > also > > worked hard and put in a lot of time over many years discovering places to > > fish. I suspect part of why they are posting is because they are also > > fishing! I surely would be hesitant in sharing detailed information with > > just anyone. I know Preston is very involved in some of the steelhead > forums > > that are being held. > > > > I believe posting restraint should be exercised by List participants. If > > the bite is good in the Yakima canyon, that's great info. I wouldn't want > > the person posting the message to cough up exactly where, what rock they > were > > standing on, and how they were holding their mouth when they were catching > > their fish. To know the Yak is fishing well, in the afternoon, on BWO and > > mahogany duns, or that coho or stacked in the Sky, should be enough > > information to send me off exploring for my own 'secret' honey hole. Or, > to > > know that the fish in Amber Lake are whacking #8 black buggers on Type 2 > > lines at sundown, that should be enough. > > > > Part of the challenge and fun of fishing is discovering 'new' places, your > > own secret spot, or locations that haven't or aren't being fished heavily. > I > > noticed there are a lot of inquiries on how, what, and where to fish, but > > those same folks don't provide a report on if the information they obtained > > from the List did or didn't help. I think the kind of generic feedback > would > > be very useful to most of the List members. > > > > if I knew the answer ot your questions (never fished on the Snoqualmie for > > trout), I'd share it with you. I'd call Creekside over in Issaquah; that > > water is in their backyard, and they seem to usually have a pretty good > > handle on it. > > > > I don't believe Patrick's response was directed necessarily at you. I > read > > into his posting that his comments have been building for some time, and > for > > some reason, your question brought it out. > > > > Richard Embry > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Wayne Sall > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; 'waflyfishers' > > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 9:26 AM > > Subject: RE: where have all the reports gone? > > > > > > Well excuse me Mr. Petersen, I must have signed up for the wrong site. > You' > > re right there probably should be a Prima Donna site and a beginners site. > > Once us "beginners" get this figured out we could again break off and start > > our own site so we don't get tired of sharing our knowledge with the great > > unwashed. I hope I don't appear illiterate. > > > > Sincerely, > > > > Wayne Sall > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: PATRICK PETERSEN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > > Sent: Friday, November 02, 2001 12:00 AM > > To: waflyfishers > > Subject: where have all the reports gone? > > > > > > > > I have noticed over the last year that the reports have become fewer > and > > fewer on the waflyfishers list. Is this due to so many new members asking > > basic questions on where and what? I personally have contributed a weekly > > report discussing tactics and locations but have noticed the senior members > > contributing virtually nothing except for clarification on the regs. I have > > seen the sport grow in the last ten years to record numbers. That said, > > perhaps it is possible that many members are tired of seeing the crowds in > > their favorite fishing holes, myself included. Perhaps waflyfishers could > > offer a second list to the beginners so not to be bombarded the list with > the > > same old questions and to entice more information from those grungy old fly > > fishers. I miss seeing the posts of the likes of Leland, Preston, Les J, > and > > others who have fished for years. Fly fishing is so diverse in its methods > > and fish to fish for and I enjoy reading about most of it including&nbs! ! > ! > > p; the Yakima even though I never fish there, but lets try not to become > > just another fishing list, with the same beginner questions over and over. > If > > beginners want to read some information on Washington fly fishing, try the > > archives. Also, try using your spell check so you do not look like you are > > illiterate. > > --- PATRICK PETERSEN > > --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >
