Thanks Daniel. I certainly was not questioning you or what you have said, and appreciate your professional comment. Your response makes sense to me.
It does show how someone can mis-interpret written text, or intentionally sidetrack a discussion or commentary. Perhaps he should be in politics. Reg On 27/06/2013, at 12:32 pm, Daniel Kerr <[email protected]> wrote: > First off, I don't' really want to keep dragging this on,… but given the crap > comment from that person that "whoever,…has no idea what they are talking > about"… > a) has taken out of context what I was referring to and "Trying to put into > "easy english" rather then being technical on a forum/mailing list. > b) mis-read what I was referring…. > and frankly I'm a bit insulted…..for a few reasons. > > First off,…I wasn't referring anything to do with HFS+ format, I was > referring to the storage. > What I was trying to get to, and perhaps in a poorly worded way,… > is that a normal spinning hard drive will store files where ever it sees fit > to on a drive. This is why files can be a bit easily "Recovered" then an SSD. > As it doesn't necessarily always write data in the same place. It might put > some here, there and everywhere. Where as an SSD will "generally" write from > the start of a disk and write over what is no longer required when a file is > "deleted". > What I was really getting at may be explained a bit better from here - > <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solid-state_drive#SSD-optimized_file_systems> > /quote > Traditional hard drives store their data in a linear, ordered manner. SSDs, > however, constantly rearrange their data while keeping track of their > locations for the purpose of wear levelling. > /end quote > I was trying to find it more in a picture type of format to try and explain > it,..but didn't have much joy (and have stopped work to write this, so spent > more time then I've wanted to it given I've stopped paid work to write this > reply,…). > > The other point I was really trying to get at, and again perhaps wasn't > written too well, was to do with the "life span" of a drive. > Taken from here - > <http://www.auslogics.com/en/turbo-windows/ssd-vs-hard-drive/> > /quote > Another disadvantage of SSD drives is that each flash memory cell on an SSD > can endure only so many write cycles. This means that if you subject your SSD > to heavy use, its data retention will be shorter than with conventional hard > drive. That’s why you should think twice when writing to an SSD. And that’s > one of the reasons why it’s not a good idea to defrag solid-state drives, as > defragmentation means unnecessary data writes to the disk. > /end quote > > So why do something that puts more "work" on a drive? If it doesn't really > need to be done.? I'm not saying hey, never use this product at all,…that's > up to people to decide. I'm simply giving my personal opinion, that SSD's > "work" differently, and people can make their own decision what they choose > to do. I PERSONALLY don't see the need to run a lot of utilities across MY > SSD. That's my choice. I read up on them, look at the forums and other things > and decide what I feel is best for it. And given most of the responses I seem > to come across say that an SSD will do it all for you,..then I'm happy with > that. It still runs as well as it does the first day I had it over 2 years or > more ago. > > The other thing that I always seem to find a bit of a coincidence is that > every time I have run DiskWarrior on a drive it's always, without fail 33-34% > out. Look, don't' get me wrong, I think it's a great product and I use it a > lot (on "normal" drives),….I've just always wondered why, regardless of > whether the drive is 1 year old,..or 5 years old,..it's always without fail > at that figure. (and I'm not just referring to it running on one or two > computers,..I'm looking at at least 30 or more over the space of the last > 1.5-2 years). I still use it though, and it's one of the tools in my "tech > drive" and has saved drives where other utilities haven't. > > SO perhaps I should have worded it slightly better,….but given the tech > support has no idea of who I am, or how I word things, then to take it out of > context and understand where I was going from, well,..frankly as I said, I'm > a bit insulted. > > I will in future, use a different signature when posting to wamug,….so this > will cover that. Thanks for brining that to my attention at least. > > At the end of the day, the choice is yours. I was simply offering my opinion, > be it right or wrong…….. > > Kind regards > Daniel > --- > Daniel Kerr > MacWizardry > > Phone: 0414 795 960 > Email: <daniel AT macwizardry.com.au> > Web: <http://www.macwizardry.com.au> > > > **For everything Apple** > > NOTE: Any information provided in this email may be my personal opinion and > as such should be taken accordingly, and may not be the views of MacWizardry. > Any information provided does not offer or warrant any form of warranty or > accept liability. It would be appreciated that if any information in this > email is to be disseminated, distributed or copied, that permission by the > author be requested. > > On 27/06/2013, at 11:29 AM, Reg Whitely <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Hi WAMUGgers, especially Daniel and Ronni >> >> Here is the reply I received from Alsoft, for your observation and comment. >> >> Happy reading >> >> Reg >> >> Begin forwarded message: >> >>> From: "Alsoft Technical Support" <[email protected]> >>> Subject: Re: MacBook Pro 2013 Retina Disk Warrior compatibility >>> Date: 26 June 2013 10:58:36 pm AWST >>> To: "Reg Whitely" <[email protected]> >>> >>> Whoever stated: >>> >>> "No point. Solid State Drives (SSD's) don't work the same as "normal >>> drives" so you won't gain any benefit from it, and in some cases can make >>> it worse. >>> >>> ...has no idea what they are talking about. >>> >>> Further, this: >>> >>> "SSD's don't store files the same way a normal spinning disk does" >>> >>> ...is completely false. >>> >>> Both a traditional rotational hard drive, and an SSD, are going to be using >>> the HFS+ format when used with a Macintosh computer. >>> >>> As such, regardless of the type of media, the directory format is the same, >>> the directory structure is the same, and the problems that can occur with >>> the directory are the same. >>> >>> As such, using DiskWarrior will always provide a benefit and never make >>> things worse. >>> >>> Finally, for reference, DiskWarrior doesn't "defragment" a hard drive. >>> DiskWarrior rebuilds the directory (index of all of the files and folders). >>> These are two completely different tasks and actions. >>> >>> -- Marc >>> >>> >>>> Thanks Marc >>>> >>>> I've been reminded by others that I neglected to tell you my MacBook Pro >>>> has SSD. >>>> >>>> To quote: "No point. Solid State Drives (SSD's) don't work the same as >>>> "normal drives" so you won't gain any benefit from it, and in some cases >>>> can make it worse. >>>> >>>> So I wouldn't recommend Diskwarrior for that type of machine, or ones with >>>> SSD's at all." >>>> >>>> and >>>> >>>> "... this link may help more >>>> <https://discussions.apple.com/thread/4092213?start=0&tstart=0> >>>> Particularly this part >>>> /quote >>>> What you DONT need to do is worry about physical maintenance - >>>> "defragmentation" is pretty much irrelevant. >>>> /end quote >>>> SSD's don't store files the same way a normal spinning disk does. >>>> Just like you "can't" really do a secure erase files from an SSD. Once >>>> something is erased on it, it's gone. >>>> (Even if you boot off another drive, and try do a "secure erase" reformat >>>> of the drive, that option isn't readily available in Disk Utility,..or >>>> others,....). >>>> This is one of the reasons backups with SSD's are very important, as once >>>> files are gone,..they're gone. So data recovery is a lot harder (if >>>> sometimes near impossible)." >>>> >>>> What is your response to this? >>>> >>>> Reg >>>> >>>> >>>> On 25/06/2013, at 9:26 pm, Alsoft Technical Support >>>> <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>>>> Below is the result of your feedback form. It was submitted by Reg >>>>>> Whitely ([email protected]) on Tuesday, June 25, 2013 at 03:37:33 >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> a_Product: DiskWarrior >>>>>> >>>>>> b_Product_Version: 4.4 >>>>>> >>>>>> c_Product_Serial_Number: presales >>>>>> >>>>>> d_Question_or_Problem: When will you release an update to Disk >>>>>> Warrior to provide a suitable start-up disk? Disk Warrior has been >>>>>> recommended to me but I'm reluctant to buy it until it is fully >>>>>> compatible. >>>>>> >>>>>> g. Mac OS Version: Mac OS 10.8 >>>>>> >>>>>> h. Mac Model: MacBook Pro Retina, 15-inch, Early 2013 >>>>>> >>>>>> i. Mac Processor: Intel >>>>>> >>>>>> j. Mac RAM: 16 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 >>>>>> >>>>>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >>>>>> --- >>>>>> >>>>>> IP Address: 121.45.229.26 >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> The DiskWarrior application is fully compatible with this computer, you >>>>> simply cannot start up the computer from the DiskWarrior disc. >>>>> >>>>> There is currently no DiskWarrior disc to start up this generation >>>>> MacBook Pro. All third-party developers are awaiting the delivery from >>>>> Apple of a version of the operating system that can be run from a DVD, so >>>>> that an updated disc can be created. >>>>> >>>>> However, the DiskWarrior 4.4 application can be used with this machine. >>>>> You simply cannot start up the computer from a DiskWarrior disc. >>>>> >>>>> As such, you could utilize one of the following configurations after >>>>> utilizing the downloadable 4.4 updater (However, this will still not >>>>> create a disc that will start up your computer) at: >>>>> >>>>> http://www.alsoft.com/DiskWarrior/diskwarriorupdate.html >>>>> >>>>> (1) Alternate Startup Disk >>>>> >>>>> If you have an external drive such as... >>>>> >>>>> FireWire (PowerPC or Intel) >>>>> USB2 or newer (Intel only) >>>>> Thunderbolt (Intel only) >>>>> >>>>> Or a secondary internal drive or partition... >>>>> >>>>> You can install Mac OS X (the version which shipped with your computer or >>>>> higher) on that drive and start up the computer from the operating system >>>>> on the external/secondary device. Once you have started up the computer >>>>> from the newly-installed operating system, install DiskWarrior into the >>>>> "Utilities" folder (which is inside the "Applications" folder). Then, >>>>> you can launch DiskWarrior from the Utilities folder of the >>>>> external/secondary device to rebuild the directory of the computer's main >>>>> hard drive. >>>>> >>>>> More information can be here: >>>>> >>>>> http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4718 >>>>> >>>>> (2) Target Disk Mode: Connect two Macs with a FireWire or Thunderbolt >>>>> cable (not all options will be applicable depending on the model of your >>>>> computer) where one is the "host" and the other is a "target". The host >>>>> Mac should be running OS X (10.4.x "Tiger" or higher). In this scenario, >>>>> the target Mac is the computer whose internal hard drive you want to >>>>> repair. Start by shutting down the target Mac. Then turn it on while >>>>> holding down the "T" key. The target Mac's drive will appear as an >>>>> option via the DiskWarrior interface. Run DiskWarrior from the Utilities >>>>> folder of the host Mac and rebuild the target Mac's disk. >>>>> >>>>> -- Marc >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>>>> Marc Moorash, Alsoft Technical Support >>>>> Email: [email protected] >>>>> >>>> >>>> Reg Whitely >>>> >>>> Home: 08 9921 7272 >>>> Mob: 04 8899 7313 >>>> Email: [email protected] >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >>> Marc Moorash, Alsoft Technical Support >>> Email: [email protected] >>> >> >> Reg Whitely >> >> Home: 08 9921 7272 >> Mob: 04 8899 7313 >> Email: [email protected] >> >> >> >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> >> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> >> Settings & Unsubscribe - >> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug> Reg Whitely Home: 08 9921 7272 Mob: 04 8899 7313 Email: [email protected]
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