Hi Peter I’m butting in with two points:
1. This Apple Support document describes the start up sequence in some detail, it may help explain where your Mac is failing. https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT204156 You seem to have a number of things (not) happening. My guess is that the failure happens before the hard drive is involved. Absence of the start up chime indicates something early in the booting sequence. No Apple logo points to RAM or firmware problems. At least the RAM is probably easy to check if it is firmly plugged in. The AHT sequence would test the RAM if you can get it to go that far. 2. In my opinion third party fan controls should have all settings set to default before uninstalling. If, for example, it was set to change the processor fan to 5000 revs then that figure may be what it is still trying to achieve, whatever the temperature. Or maybe there is just something hot inside the MBP! Regards Alan > On 21 May 2018, at 9:39 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected]> wrote: > > Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the same, > black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed. > > I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM > reset, attempt start in Safe mode. > > The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is > seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different > startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. > > I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not > certain how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC fan > controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration > Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can > selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed > machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High > Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering > this still as a likely outcome here. > > Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to > drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a different > way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway. > > Regards > > > Pete > > On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: > >> Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I >> suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the >> cooling fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full >> speed. It just remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to >> suggest any activity going on in there. >> >> I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it went >> completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite normally. I >> accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is unlikely a screen >> fail when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen still displayed >> ok. Still without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what the fault is. >> >> I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with >> attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up. >> >> I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up >> test. I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and >> wonder if that could serve as a test for external boot. But even still, the >> instructions for external drive boot requires that I get a Start up chime, >> which I don’t get and hence I don’t think it will even enter into this mode. >> I’ll give it a shot. No good there with that test. >> >> I’ve had a thought, I have the removed disc that was in James’ MBP (same >> model 2011 MBP) with a fully functioning drive in it when it was removed. I >> will swap it into Tims MBP and see what that does to try eleminiate the >> hardware of the laptop as being suspect or otherwise. >> >> Regards >> >> >> Pete >> >> On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> Just some thoughts. >>> >>> The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not necessarily >>> mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system installed on it >>> – but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the black screen/no >>> life problem of the MBP. >>> I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have >>> determined the hardware status of the MBP. >>> Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt >>> to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a >>> suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the >>> internal drive died. >>> If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system installation >>> on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from an external >>> HD – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, containing a >>> previous clone of my system, for around 2 years before I finally got round >>> to repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD. >>> As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although >>> the MBP will at least need a working screen. >>> I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it would >>> be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems and then >>> the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but coincidences >>> DO happen. – If you have an external screen and the appropriate >>> lead/adaptor you might be able to narrow the problem down to a failed >>> screen (very long shot). >>> I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some >>> problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed I >>> would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware >>> problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above). >>> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came >>> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be >>> able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size >>> – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is >>> worth persevering to upgrade. >>> >>> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual >>> problem or problems. >>> >>> >>> HTH >>> >>> >>> Neil >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Neil R. Houghton >>> Albany, Western Australia >>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 >>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>> From: <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Peter >>> Crisp <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Reply-To: WAMUG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10 >>> To: WAMUG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES! >>> >>> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter >>> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an >>> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the >>> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon >>> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the >>> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am >>> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information it >>> seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem. <> >>> >>> Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by >>> the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get >>> his MBP to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan >>> controller. Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also >>> would not seem to be a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected >>> as an external disc. >>> >>> Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s >>> status or even the MBP hardware as well? >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is >>> completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan >>> control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I >>> am stuck with the backup I have. I really am unsire of the next step, I >>> will persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. >>> All that happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts up, nothing >>> to show. I think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can hold upon >>> hitting the start button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and nothing >>> really results from it. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Peter, >>> I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely >>> uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup. >>> >>> Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by >>> any 3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it >>> wants. smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac. >>> It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as >>> well as the app! >>> If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is >>> complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache >>> files & other associated items it created during the setup and daily usage. >>> To thoroughly ‘Delete smcFanControl, it is necessary to delete the >>> remaining components scattered around the system. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Ronni >>> >>> Sent from Ronni's iPhone 7 Plus >>> >>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:56 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi ROnni, yes I have just got back from Gin Gin I had to collect one son >>> from Coolup as well so lots of driving today from Mandurah. >>> >>> I am getting you WAMUG mails from WAMUG and I also do see them at the link >>> you sent too. Not sure what’s going on your end but it all looks ok from >>> the ‘outside’. >>> >>> I’ve just got back home now so James is rerunning the second half for me >>> but I was listening on the radio and I heard Darling was having a cracker. >>> >>> I am looking further into Tims MBP tponoight too, I am not hopeful. I think >>> I will be buying another SSD to replace and then restore from backup. But >>> fingers crossed. He needs it for school so I gotta do it quickly. I think >>> tonight it wont be sorted. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:50 pm, Ronda Brown <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Peter, >>> >>> That was a great game to watch the Eagles are flying high! >>> Darling was absolutely brilliant... I thought his kicking leg would fall >>> off in the final quarter! >>> The whole team played together, very slick and accurate passing either by >>> hand or foot. >>> A very good result and well deserved. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Ronni >>> P.S I don’t know what has happened to WAMUG mailing list as I’m not >>> receiving any messages... even my replies to you regarding ‘MacBook failing >>> or not?. >>> The archives show my messages, so you can check there at this link >>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>> >>> >>> Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB >>> >>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - >>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >>> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml >>> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>> >>> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml >>> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>> >>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug >>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>> > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml > <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml > <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>>
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