Hi Peter Another thought. (Amazing that these occur when I am packing up for the night!)
Any unusual software in the normal user startup list? Perhaps the MBP is still searching for the fan control app. System Preferences > Users and Groups > Login Items. Regards Alan > On 21 May 2018, at 10:08 pm, Alan Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Peter > > I’m butting in with two points: > > 1. This Apple Support document describes the start up sequence in some > detail, it may help explain where your Mac is failing. > > https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT204156 > <https://support.apple.com/en-au/HT204156> > You seem to have a number of things (not) happening. My guess is that the > failure happens before the hard drive is involved. Absence of the start up > chime indicates something early in the booting sequence. No Apple logo > points to RAM or firmware problems. At least the RAM is probably easy to > check if it is firmly plugged in. The AHT sequence would test the RAM if you > can get it to go that far. > > 2. In my opinion third party fan controls should have all settings set to > default before uninstalling. If, for example, it was set to change the > processor fan to 5000 revs then that figure may be what it is still trying to > achieve, whatever the temperature. Or maybe there is just something hot > inside the MBP! > > Regards > Alan > > >> On 21 May 2018, at 9:39 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >> Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the >> same, black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed. >> >> I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM >> reset, attempt start in Safe mode. >> >> The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is >> seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different >> startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. >> >> I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not >> certain how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC >> fan controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration >> Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can >> selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed >> machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High >> Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering >> this still as a likely outcome here. >> >> Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to >> drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a >> different way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway. >> >> Regards >> >> >> Pete >> >> On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >> >>> Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I >>> suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the >>> cooling fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full >>> speed. It just remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to >>> suggest any activity going on in there. >>> >>> I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it >>> went completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite >>> normally. I accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is >>> unlikely a screen fail when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen >>> still displayed ok. Still without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what >>> the fault is. >>> >>> I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with >>> attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up. >>> >>> I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up >>> test. I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and >>> wonder if that could serve as a test for external boot. But even still, the >>> instructions for external drive boot requires that I get a Start up chime, >>> which I don’t get and hence I don’t think it will even enter into this >>> mode. I’ll give it a shot. No good there with that test. >>> >>> I’ve had a thought, I have the removed disc that was in James’ MBP (same >>> model 2011 MBP) with a fully functioning drive in it when it was removed. I >>> will swap it into Tims MBP and see what that does to try eleminiate the >>> hardware of the laptop as being suspect or otherwise. >>> >>> Regards >>> >>> >>> Pete >>> >>> On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton <[email protected] >>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>> >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>> Just some thoughts. >>>> >>>> The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not >>>> necessarily mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system >>>> installed on it – but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the >>>> black screen/no life problem of the MBP. >>>> I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have >>>> determined the hardware status of the MBP. >>>> Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt >>>> to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a >>>> suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the >>>> internal drive died. >>>> If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system >>>> installation on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from >>>> an external HD – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, >>>> containing a previous clone of my system, for around 2 years before I >>>> finally got round to repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD. >>>> As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although >>>> the MBP will at least need a working screen. >>>> I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it >>>> would be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems >>>> and then the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but >>>> coincidences DO happen. – If you have an external screen and the >>>> appropriate lead/adaptor you might be able to narrow the problem down to a >>>> failed screen (very long shot). >>>> I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some >>>> problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed >>>> I would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no >>>> hardware problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed >>>> above). >>>> After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came >>>> with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should >>>> be able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient >>>> size – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it >>>> is worth persevering to upgrade. >>>> >>>> As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual >>>> problem or problems. >>>> >>>> >>>> HTH >>>> >>>> >>>> Neil >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Neil R. Houghton >>>> Albany, Western Australia >>>> Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 >>>> Email: [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> >>>> From: <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Peter >>>> Crisp <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Reply-To: WAMUG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Date: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10 >>>> To: WAMUG <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> >>>> Subject: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES! >>>> >>>> Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter >>>> connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an >>>> externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the >>>> SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon >>>> refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the >>>> problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am >>>> puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information >>>> it seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem. <> >>>> >>>> Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by >>>> the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get >>>> his MBP to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan >>>> controller. Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also >>>> would not seem to be a solution given the fact it looks fine when >>>> connected as an external disc. >>>> >>>> Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s >>>> status or even the MBP hardware as well? >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is >>>> completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC >>>> Fan control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. >>>> So I am stuck with the backup I have. I really am unsire of the next >>>> step, I will persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting >>>> my time. All that happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts >>>> up, nothing to show. I think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can >>>> hold upon hitting the start button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and >>>> nothing really results from it. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely >>>> uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup. >>>> >>>> Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by >>>> any 3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it >>>> wants. smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac. >>>> It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as >>>> well as the app! >>>> If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is >>>> complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache >>>> files & other associated items it created during the setup and daily >>>> usage. To thoroughly ‘Delete smcFanControl, it is necessary to delete the >>>> remaining components scattered around the system. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Ronni >>>> >>>> Sent from Ronni's iPhone 7 Plus >>>> >>>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:56 pm, Peter Crisp <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi ROnni, yes I have just got back from Gin Gin I had to collect one son >>>> from Coolup as well so lots of driving today from Mandurah. >>>> >>>> I am getting you WAMUG mails from WAMUG and I also do see them at the link >>>> you sent too. Not sure what’s going on your end but it all looks ok from >>>> the ‘outside’. >>>> >>>> I’ve just got back home now so James is rerunning the second half for me >>>> but I was listening on the radio and I heard Darling was having a cracker. >>>> >>>> I am looking further into Tims MBP tponoight too, I am not hopeful. I >>>> think I will be buying another SSD to replace and then restore from >>>> backup. But fingers crossed. He needs it for school so I gotta do it >>>> quickly. I think tonight it wont be sorted. >>>> >>>> Regards >>>> >>>> >>>> Pete >>>> >>>> On 20 May 2018, at 5:50 pm, Ronda Brown <[email protected] >>>> <mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Peter, >>>> >>>> That was a great game to watch the Eagles are flying high! >>>> Darling was absolutely brilliant... I thought his kicking leg would fall >>>> off in the final quarter! >>>> The whole team played together, very slick and accurate passing either by >>>> hand or foot. >>>> A very good result and well deserved. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Ronni >>>> P.S I don’t know what has happened to WAMUG mailing list as I’m not >>>> receiving any messages... even my replies to you regarding ‘MacBook >>>> failing or not?. >>>> The archives show my messages, so you can check there at this link >>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ >>>> <https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/> >>>> >>>> >>>> Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB >>>> >>>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - >>>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>>> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >>>> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml >>>> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>> >>>> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml >>>> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>> >>>> Settings & Unsubscribe - >>>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug >>>> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>> >> -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- >> Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml >> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml>> >> Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml >> <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml>> >> Settings & Unsubscribe - >> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug >> <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>> > > -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- > Archives - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml> > Guidelines - <http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml> > Settings & Unsubscribe - > <http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug>
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