Thanks for that lot there Neil. I am pretty careful when doing things inside to the extent of paranoia. Double checking connections and generally fastidious attention to the detail of the task I'm doing - nevertheless still being human can mean errors on my part. I will try the 'attempt boot with no RAM' and see how that goes and then install the spare RAM's I have aside from previous work on James' machine. Will revert when I get through these tests. I appreciate everyone's constructive comments here. Kind Regards Pete.
----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To:"WAMUG" Cc: Sent:Tue, 22 May 2018 12:04:17 +0800 Subject:Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES! Hi Pete, A few more thoughts ;o) * OK even though the first thoughts for fans OK but nothing else happens would tend to be a possible power supply or logic board failure – ie a hardware problem with the MBP is looking more likely, as you say you have not much to lose by trying a few long shots. * When things do start to go wrong/fail sometimes an initial problem is seen then other things occur – it is easy to get anchored into trying to troubleshoot the problem by focusing on the original problem/circumstances, whereas there may be additional, more serious, problems that are now present – I’m not saying that anything points to this, just to remain open to that probability. * Having opened up the MBP to remove/change the HDD there is also the possibility you may have disturbed something – this is obviously not the original problem but may be hiding/hindering its solution. So – a few very long shots: * If sound has somehow been set to mute on your MBP you may not hear the start-up chime (well I just tested a restart on my El Capitan iMac after muting and no chime there) * Could the brightness have got set down to minimum on the MBP (though I would still expect that you would see something). * Could you have disturbed any lead/connector whilst in the MBP. * Could the RAM seating have got disturbed whilst you were in the MBP Googling the problem obviously brings up lots of hits as I am sure you have found and perused. You have obviously tried all the obvious steps, as you said below. However, here are a few more long shots: >From < https://www.ifixit.com/Answers/View/6271/> * For me, the key was trying to start the computer with no RAM installed. After that succeeded, I went ahead and put a single RAM chip back in, and it started up. * I put in a system CD and tried booting holding down the 'C' key. Nothing happened. After a few more attempts, and thinking i was done for, I booted it, holding down the CD eject key; wanted my system CD back. Lo and behold, it booted! i have looked at many forums, but have never seen this solution. (5 more posters reported that this worked for them!) And this is an old one for an iMac G5 ;o) – but the logic is not computer specific: _One day, it decided not to even give me the POST chime. I took it to the Apple ‘Genious” who promptly told me I needed a new logic board at a cost of $440. I said no thanks and went home. I have been an electronics tech for many years so I wasn’t going to let this go that easily._ __ _I built enough clone PC’s back in the day to see a shorted component load down the power supply and cause a seemingly unrelated component to appear dead. This time was no exception. I unplugged everything from the logic board except for the power supply and video connections and hit the power button. Sure enough, I got a chime. Began plugging things back in one at a time until I found the culprit. Turned out to be the hard drive temp sensor. A $24 part if ordered off the internet. No expensive logic board replacement, just a little temp sensor board._ __ I think I’d better give up now ;o) Cheers Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: [email protected] FROM: on behalf of Peter Crisp REPLY-TO: WAMUG DATE: Monday, 21 May 2018 at 21:39 TO: WAMUG SUBJECT: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES! Ok, following that test with a known prior running HDD, it is still the same, black screen and gradual fan run up to full speed. I have done a SMC reset (disconnect battery per instructions etc). NVRAM reset, attempt start in Safe mode. The one thing I have noted is there is no start up chime. This chime is seemingly, from all the Apple help, a pre-requisite to forcing the different startup modes - like Safe Mode, etc. I think I am looking at another MBP or MBA. Even if I do that, I am not certain how I can migrate Tims data back into a new machine (with the SMC fan controller thing still present in the backup). I’ve used the Migration Assistant a few times but very infrequently so I can’t recall if I can selectively bring back the data knowing that will remain safe. The failed machine was a Yosemite OSX and a new machine I would go straight to High Sierra. Getting a bit ahead of myself down the Plan B road but considering this still as a likely outcome here. Tonight I am leaving the MBP with AC adaptor off and the fan running away to drain the battery. A very long shot may force the SMC to think in a different way. Not many other choices nor much to loose anyway. Regards Pete On 21 May 2018, at 7:39 pm, Peter Crisp wrote: Hi Neil and Ronni, I have run the test below to attempt the AHT and as I suspected the MBP wont even entertain it. Screen remains black and the cooling fan starts after about 15-20 seconds and slowly ramps up to full speed. It just remains with the fan running flat out and nothing else to suggest any activity going on in there. I am confident it is not a screen fault as across the weekend before it went completely black all the time, the screen was displaying quite normally. I accept that is not definitive, but my thinking is it is unlikely a screen fail when whilst it was showing HDD anomalies, the screen still displayed ok. Still without the AHT running, I don’t yet know what the fault is. I also tried the NVRAM/PRAM reset “Option/Command/P/R” concurrent with attempted start. Same response - black screen and slow fan ramp up. I don’t actually have a disc that it came with for the external start up test. I do however have my CCC drive for my MBP Retina (High Sierra) and wonder if that could serve as a test for external boot. But even still, the instructions for external drive boot requires that I get a Start up chime, which I don’t get and hence I don’t think it will even enter into this mode. I’ll give it a shot. No good there with that test. I’ve had a thought, I have the removed disc that was in James’ MBP (same model 2011 MBP) with a fully functioning drive in it when it was removed. I will swap it into Tims MBP and see what that does to try eleminiate the hardware of the laptop as being suspect or otherwise. Regards Pete On 21 May 2018, at 11:54 am, Neil Houghton wrote: Hi Peter, Just some thoughts. · The fact that you can mount the HD on another computer does not necessarily mean that there will be no problems with it - or the system installed on it – but it does suggest that the HD is not the cause of the black screen/no life problem of the MBP. · I do not think there is any point trying to fit a new HD until you have determined the hardware status of the MBP. · Even with no HD inside, if the MBP was OK I would expect to see it attempt to start and then display a flashing “?” to indicate that it cannot find a suitable OS to boot from – that is what happened with my iMac when the internal drive died. · If the problem was just with either the HD or a corrupt system installation on it, as a test you should still be able to run the MBP from an external HD – I continued to use my iMac from an external FW drive, containing a previous clone of my system, for around 2 years before I finally got round to repairing the iMac with a SSD and new HD. · As Ronni says, you could try and run Apple Hardware Test (AHT) – although the MBP will at least need a working screen. · I suppose it is possible that the MBP has a dead screen – although it would be a bit of a coincidence if you were having these other problems and then the screen died when you tried to address them – unlikely but coincidences DO happen. – If you have an external screen and the appropriate lead/adaptor you might be able to narrow the problem down to a failed screen (very long shot). · I suppose the residual cruft from the SMC fan controller might give some problems – however that would all reside on the HD so with the HD removed I would have thought the MBP should behave as normal if there are no hardware problems (well normal for a computer with no HD as discussed above). · After removing the HD, did you try booting from the install disk that came with the MBP – if there are no hardware problems I think that you should be able to install a bare OSX even on an external usb stick of sufficient size – if you can confirm the actual MBP hardware (less HD) is OK then it is worth persevering to upgrade. As I say, just some thoughts which might help you narrow down the actual problem or problems. HTH Neil -- Neil R. Houghton Albany, Western Australia Tel: +61 8 9841 6063 Email: [email protected] [3] FROM: on behalf of Peter Crisp REPLY-TO: WAMUG DATE: Sunday, 20 May 2018 at 21:10 TO: WAMUG SUBJECT: Re: GREAT GAME EAGLES! Hi Ronni, I removed the HDD from Tim’s MBP and using the SATA adapter connected it to Joannes MBP. It opened fined, the folder structure as an externally connected drive looked completely as expected. I did locate the SMC app in the Downloads folder and was able to succesfully trash it. Upon refitting to Tim’s MBP I get the same behaviour which makes me think the problem is with the MBP chassis/hardware somewhere and not the HDD. I am puzzled where to now. If I simply replace the HDD, with this information it seems unlikely that that would actually fix the problem. Buying a replacement MBP and restoring from the backup would be plagued by the SMC installation in the backup and there being no apparent way to get his MBP to start up and be able to get into the OSX to disable the SMC fan controller. Buying a replacement SSD for his MBP and copying over also would not seem to be a solution given the fact it looks fine when connected as an external disc. Is there some other sort of way I could assess the HDD to confirm it’s status or even the MBP hardware as well? Regards Pete On 20 May 2018, at 7:17 pm, Peter Crisp wrote: HI ROnni, thanks for that, but the problem i have is that Tim’s MBP is completely unresponsive so I cannot even get into it to disable the SMC Fan control he installed to then create a backup with that not in place. So I am stuck with the backup I have. I really am unsire of the next step, I will persevere with the current MBP now but I think I am wasting my time. All that happens is the screen remains black and the fan starts up, nothing to show. I think it is rooted. Maybe there is a command I can hold upon hitting the start button but I try “Shift” and “Command R” and nothing really results from it. Regards Pete On 20 May 2018, at 6:52 pm, Ronda Brown wrote: Hi Peter, I would be careful about restoring from backup until you can completely uninstall the smcFanControl then do a backup & restore from the new backup. Apple and we consultants don’t recommend users to control the fan speed by any 3rd party utility, it’s better to let your Mac set the fan speed as it wants. smcFanControl is not a necessary app for your Mac. It installs many files throughout the system which need to be deleted as well as the app! If you think you just drag smcFanControl to the trash & think removal is complete, then you’re wrong. That won’t remove the supportive files, cache files & other associated items it created during the setup and daily usage. To thoroughly ‘Delete smcFanControl, it is necessary to delete the remaining components scattered around the system. Regards, Ronni Sent from Ronni's iPhone 7 Plus On 20 May 2018, at 5:56 pm, Peter Crisp wrote: Hi ROnni, yes I have just got back from Gin Gin I had to collect one son from Coolup as well so lots of driving today from Mandurah. I am getting you WAMUG mails from WAMUG and I also do see them at the link you sent too. Not sure what’s going on your end but it all looks ok from the ‘outside’. I’ve just got back home now so James is rerunning the second half for me but I was listening on the radio and I heard Darling was having a cracker. I am looking further into Tims MBP tponoight too, I am not hopeful. I think I will be buying another SSD to replace and then restore from backup. But fingers crossed. He needs it for school so I gotta do it quickly. I think tonight it wont be sorted. Regards Pete On 20 May 2018, at 5:50 pm, Ronda Brown wrote: Hi Peter, That was a great game to watch the Eagles are flying high! Darling was absolutely brilliant... I thought his kicking leg would fall off in the final quarter! The whole team played together, very slick and accurate passing either by hand or foot. A very good result and well deserved. Cheers, Ronni P.S I don’t know what has happened to WAMUG mailing list as I’m not receiving any messages... even my replies to you regarding ‘MacBook failing or not?. The archives show my messages, so you can check there at this link https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ [12] Ronni Brown’s iPad Pro 12.9-inch 256GB -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - Settings & Unsubscribe - -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - Settings & Unsubscribe - -- The WA Macintosh User Group Mailing List -- Archives - Guidelines - Settings & Unsubscribe - Links: ------ [1] mailto:[email protected] [2] mailto:[email protected] [3] mailto:[email protected] [4] mailto:[email protected] [5] mailto:[email protected] [6] mailto:[email protected] [7] mailto:[email protected] [8] mailto:[email protected] [9] mailto:[email protected] [10] mailto:[email protected] [11] mailto:[email protected] [12] https://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/ [13] http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/archives.shtml [14] http://www.wamug.org.au/mailinglist/guidelines.shtml [15] http://lists.wamug.org.au/listinfo/wamug.org.au-wamug
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