Franko wrote: I wrote: > >1. AOL bought Mirabilis' ICQ. <snip> > As a software user, > how can you > >know that a software company that you've trusted, and maybe given > >"confidential" info to, won't be sold to one of the evil beasts? > Guess you > >can't. This reminds me of the Firefly/Hotmail/Microsoft thing. > Do "privacy > >statements" apply when a company gets bought out? Or are they > just so much > >hooting into the wind? I can even see an evil empire creating a > front with a > >nice little privacy statement, such as the one at bigfoot.com, > only to lure > >data out of people, then change their policy via a buyout. I dunno, maybe > >that's taking it a little far? Maybe not. Comments? > > Interesting one. I'd hazard a guess that in most legal jurisdictions when > you buy a company you also by all assets and liabilities with it, and all > written and implied guarantees and warranties. In other words, you have to > abide by any privacy guarantees given by the company you've purchased. Can anyone confirm? > But > I'd still be wary of giving any information I didn't want generally > available or that couldn't easily be found out about me through > other means. IMO, ICQ/Mirabilis setup an atmosphere of trust and set it self as a business "outside" the realm of big corporate interests, which may have led more users than usual to provide private information. Here is a list of things that you can supply to Mirabilis if you are an ICQ subscriber: PERSONAL CONTACT INFO name, lastname, nickname EMAIL primary,secondary,old DOB, AGE, GENDER, LANGUAGE(S) OTHER CONTACT INFO home page, street address, city, state, country PHONE NUMBERS tel, fax, cel BUSINESS INFO occupation, position, company, division of company, company address, work phone, work fax, business home page PAST BACKGROUND categories include: high school, college, university, military, past work place(!), past organization PERSONAL INTERESTS categories include: art, cars, celebrity fan, collections, computers, culture & literature, fitness, games, hobbies, internet, lifestyle, movies/TV, music, outdoor activities, parenting, pets/animals, religion, science/tech, skills, sports, web design (each of these categories has distinct subcategories) These items can all be searched on to find users. The ICQ user agreement says: <clipped> By using the ICQ Software or the ICQ Services and Information , you agree to and acknowledge the following: 1) The details you elected to post on the various ICQ Directories, during the registration procedure or thereafter are available and freely accessible by the public; 2) Mirabilis may choose to provide third parties with the content which is available to the public on the ICQ directories and listings or any part thereof, for advertising purposes or any other use; 3) Mirabilis may gather statistics and other information concerning the use of, and originated from the ICQ Software, ICQ Servers, the ICQ network, the Mirabilis and ICQ websites as well as registration parameters provided by you, your software and configuration, provided that if published will be done only in aggregate form without user names; 4) Information provided or related to by you may serve for the purpose of target advertising, co-registration to other services by Mirabilis or other parties, provided that if names are part of this information you had been given the advanced opportunity to request that your name will be omitted; 5) Due to the nature and functionality of the ICQ system, Software and network, other users may retrieve information regarding your dynamic IP address, your selection of various parameters and status, or any information submitted by you in the registration procedure or while using the ICQ Software and Network; 6) Not to use or rely on the ICQ software Mirabilis and ICQ websites, the ICQ Services and Information or any other program, information or service whatsoever related thereto for "mission critical" or "content sensitive" applications and use. "Mission critical" applications and use shall mean applications and use that may result in damage if failed; "content sensitive" shall mean any information or data you do not wish to be freely accessible and generally available to Internet users. </clipped> Now, granted, many users probably only give the minimum, or a fraction of the info that they could provide, and may probably give bogus info, but I guess what gets under my skin, and what seems like an issue, is: 1) many people probably DO give real data 2) people may not have supplied such detailed data if AOL was the owner when the data was supplied 3) the data has now been bought AND, if I look at the ICQ/AOL literature correctly, Mirabilis has said they will follow their own current policies (above), which means that AOL will follow the policies, which means there is now a powerhouse available to use that data AND combine it with data already culled from matching AOL subscribers. > Incidentally, we have a check box on all our web sites where > information is > gathered that if checked says, 'do not use the information gathered here > for further promotional or marketing contacts' or words to that > effect. Our > database manager asked me, 'does this mean I have to flag the db for no > more contacts if this is checked?' My answer...'f course. That's what > people have asked for.' ROTF. Your "database manager"? Aye, aye, aye. > >2. Yahoo bought Viaweb. Very interesting. Now you can setup > shop, complete > >with shipping, reporting, credit card verification, etc, through Yahoo. > >They're starting to get a bit big for their britches, IMO. Next > evil empire? > > Not necessarily. I don't believe big always equates with evil. Nor are the > little guys always the good guys. It comes down to ethics and large > companies can behave ethically just a small entrepreunerial companies can > behave unethically. Yes. I used the term "evil" in a somewhat sarcastic way. What most perturbs me is that as these large companies buy up others, just as Microsoft (and many others) have done, it leaves less room for the little guy. The web was supposed to alleviate some of that at the onset, ha, very, ha, ha. Are things headed more toward tons of people sitting in cubicles cursing their company, or away from it? Instead of (insert least favorite corporation you worked for in the 80's here), is it going to be Yahoo, Excite, CNet being the next generation companies whose employees just feel like wage slaves? Once the excitement wears off, will everyone be sitting around going, "oh, I wish I could quit this job and do something on my own", while the options to do so get narrower and narrower? With all the consolidation on the upper tier, won't the options for startups shrink? Won't the options for innovating be reduced? Will Yahoo inadvertently become as evil as MS, just to stay competitive? What will happen when MS's "Start" site arrives? I realize that a large company can behave "ethically", but it depends on who is defining what ethical is. Which depends on what shoes they're wearing at the time. > >3. Amazon started selling music. IMO, they did a rip-roaring job > with their > >site. I think their sites are the smartest, most useful shopping > sites I've > >been too, not that I spend a lot of time examining retail sites > (George ?). > >I was particularly interested in seeing that they have a section called > >something like "In The Media", where you can go and click on "David > >Letterman Show" and get a list of albums by musicians who where > on his show > >in the recent past. Same things for other TV shows, newspapers > and magazines > >(Spin, Rolling Stone). I think this is some interesting cross-marketing. > >Then there's the usual really handy search tools, reviews, etc that we've > >come to know from the book seller once known as Amazon. What's next for > >them, I wonder? Groceries? > > They really are the model for interactive marketing. It'll be interesting > to see if they grow so large as to shut out most other people from their > market segments. If anyone has URL's that provide some insight into the strategic decision making going on at Amazon, I'd be interested. I did note that the top margin of their new site leaves room for a few more tabs next to Books and Music. On the "evil empire" issue, here again it depends on who is examining the business model. If you're a small bookseller, you may have been scrunched, unless you have a darn good "something" going for you that Amazon can't easily co-opt. If you bought amazon stock a year ago, well... >I'm starting to see this kind of "decision database" or "fuzzy logic" > >database show up in sites here and there (take a look at > >http://www.personalogic.com/ for more on where their tech is > used). It think > >the delivery of the idea is a bit rough around the edges, but is > on it's way > >to being used in many applications. > > Again, I think we're only just beginning to see the possibilities of truly > interactive marketing. Already the more advanced marketers are moving away > from the ROI model to one of lifetime value - how much is a customer worth > over a 20 year period if you establish a mutually beneficial dialog and > give them the best service you can over that period. That's the new > marketing model, and the interactive media now make it possible. When you say that's the new marketing model, for who? Are you saying that many more businesses now are thinking more long-term, even in this very volatile internet market? Granted, the interactive media provide new, maybe even better ways of providing service to customers, but as these methods get to be "old-hat" and everyone is using the same methods, what will cause one business to succeed against it's competitor, in five words or less. ;) Example, Mirabilis, where they thinking long-term? Is being bought out long term? No. I see that there are many web ventures that don't expect to make money for a few years, but that's not really long-term planning is it? And how many of those startups are desperate for capital? And maybe ready to be sold? Please explain more about the "new marketing model" you mentioned, if you don't mind. > >10. Hmm, it's almost time for dinner. Trying a new South African > Vegetarian > >place tonight. Oh, um...uh... It was very good. > Good to see you back in one piece and with nothing more than a > tender butt. Nothing more? Well, guess it's back to the streets. Jack ____________________________________________________________________ -------------------------------------------------------------------- Join The Web Consultants Association : Register on our web site Now Web Consultants Web Site : http://just4u.com/webconsultants If you lose the instructions All subscription/unsubscribing can be done directly from our website for all our lists. ---------------------------------------------------------------------
