On 10 Sep 98, at 11:10, Gill, Kathy wrote:
> > PostScript is a language that let you have control over apparence...
> > Does it sound more clear?
> Hi, Ivan -- I thought you meant appearance -- and my objection holds. PS
> works because, in part, the **output** device is "spec'ed" as well (ie, PS
> printers). Until we have the equivalent of PS monitors, the analogy
> doesn't hold -- their homogenaity is much greater.
OK OK I know we spent a lot of time talking about monitor
resolution and "best viewed with a 16/9 40" 4G colors 0.11 dpi
multimedia dolby surround 2048x1152 monitor" :-)
> Plus -- I *like* the fact that I can pick colors, font sizes, etc. that
> work for **my eyeballs** -- moving to a PS kinda world takes this end user
> power away.
Do you spend so much time going into
Option/Preferences/Apparence/Font/Whatever/you're near/be
patient/don't worry/you're in the right direction/size ????
Sorry if I'm not so visually/artistic oriented but I think that there are
beautiful things to see but if you really aren't able to menage a
sophisticated design without losing clearness, it is better you focus
on clearness and obtaining a simple, useful (headers, list some
tables) design is not so hard. And a clean design don't need I'll put
my hands on it or at least I'll be much more interested in the
contents rather than on "links color".
I think there are other kind of customization that could be more
helpful (Javlik suggested some) but there could be others.
> [the populist speaks ;-) ]
That doesn't mean I like to put my hands in evry place :-)
> > Suppose you need to collect some imput from the user.
> > Some answer will affect the questions you'll ask next.
> > If you do this completely on the server site you'll have to send
> > many pages to the client... maybe you can find a better way using
> > client side scripts.
> yes.
Unfortunately I havent seen many example of such useful way to
use client side scripting. That's why I seldom surf with JavaScript
enabled.
> > > > There is a lot of material out there on the internet, people who
> > want
> > > > to show their cat (I'm one of those),
> > > or motorcycle <g>....
> > Sorry if I miss it. If you'll send again the URL I'll give a look to
> > your BMW.
> just pix, no copy yet <g> -- look at the august ones,
> http://www.dotparagon.com/R65/
OK
> > > Your questions:
> > > > What does really make internet different from TV?
> > > - breadth and choice ... i can read/see what I want when I want, not
> > > when a TV exec decides to post a program head-to-head with another
> > one
> > > (with the exception of "live" events) ... and I think there is more
> > > "good" stuff on the Net than on TV (but I'll admit to being
> > extremely
> > > biased against TV in general).
> > So there are chances we won't sell toothpaste.
> Well, that's *my* opinion!
Any other thing to share?
> > > > Do you think that it's "moral" to follow the way of flashing
> > idiots
> > > > sites?
> > > Don't know about "moral" but would dub it "stupid."
> > Mumble well sometimes flashing means without conents and
> > attracting, without content and attracting, as the snake with Eve.
> <chuckle>
Have I offended your grrl side? :-)
> > > good point -- info about why I should buy one toothpaste
> > > (metaphorically) over another.
> > OK but this mean information not flashing things.
> correct. but you know *I* don't like flashing things <g> ....
You, but the market, the people, the other web developers...
Will the net become a "lot of button TV"?
> > Equation:
> > Consumers don't care what they buy => consumer are dumb =>
> > we have to serve flashing sites... :-(
> NO. Wrong conclusion.
> Consumers care about their purchases most when there is a risk involved.
> This explains all the FUD evident in commercials (in the US at least) ...
> car ads where the driver (a woman w/children in the car) dodges a falling
> tree in a blowing rainstorm .. that sort of thing.
> If the business can position the purchase as reducing risk, the consumer
> is more apt to buy. But sometimes the business must simultaneously inspire
> risk (which the aforementioned commercial does quite well).
This doesn't change to much the equation.
Consumers are dumb => advertiser use FUD techniques => we
have to serve NOT informative sites that need to make use of the
unrational part of people (so lots of images, sounds etc... and few
text/information)
> > OK, so what the use of DHTML, CSS etc...
> DHTML not ready for prime time, IMO, for a "mainstream" site. CSS is
> much closer.
This doesn't change too much the perspective.
We should have care of contents and on the way we convey
contents not on apparence. Sometimes apparence is the same
thing of the way we use to convey contents but much more often is
waste of bandwidth, mess, a way to use emotions of people rather
than their rational part to choose.
I'm not against wonderful landscapes, music etc...
But the risk is we will have another TV set with lot of buttons.
This kind of mess limit your possibility to choose... you would like
to surf fast, visit many sites, find informations, reading easily pages
but SE are full of spam, pages are unreadable, you've to click
hundreds of link before finding what you need...
I dont want to be apocaliptic (where is the h?) but I surf less and
less while I use more and more the email. Is this the sign of
something?
> > > Agreed -- the net just highlights the fact that we are all
> > individuals,
> > > doesn't it? Mass market is truly abandoned ....
> > Well our opinions start to diverge...
> > I'm not scared about mass market... I'm scared about bandwith
> > bottleneck and finding useful things in a lot of mess.
> agree with both of these fears.
Are you married? We are sharing too many things. :-)
> > Appearance is a means to organize contents, but the web is
> > following the opposite direction
> > There exists HTML tags that should be used to organize contents
> > as <H1> <ADDRESS> <CITE> etc.. that aren't used anymore.
> well, they are used by SOME designers .... but WYSIWYG editors often use
> 'em to spec font sizes.
SOME? If the standard was just a little bit different and people
wouldn't be so fashinated by apparence they could be much more
popular... but as I said I prefer to be pessimistic on the short time
and try to prevent the advent of the "lot of buttons TV"
These kind of tags really permits to custom apparence.
But they are lost.
To give a nice/useful shape to a content is a really hard work (we
should be paid MORE :-) ) and I think is a good thing to try to think
also to the shape but since you'll have to find the time to write
contents and sculpt the shape (oops someone have to find the
money too) I think we are loosing the contents part.
I've been a surfer for a couple of year. I've discovered the net
recently so I don't know how it was in the past but it was different
and maybe better.
The density of information was much more.
Of course we have new standards, new telecommunications
support, more SW and HW etc... but I think a lot of this new stuff
is being wasted... [as the power of my PII 233 running windowze :-)]
> > > I think you use the technology appropriate for your client and their
> > > audience(s).
> > What the right technology is?
> depends on the goal.
It seems the goal will be to sell toothpaste!!!
We have a great thing and I enjoy it evry day... email is great, the
net is full of useful informations, friends, opportunities etc...
But I really don't want toothpaste on my monitor.
> > The one that help you to sell toothpaste???
> Not sure you'll get one to sell toothpaste ....
Of course it's a metaphor
Maybe linguini could be better ;-)
> > Thanks for the nice conversation :-)
> you're welcome -- i'm enjoying and it's helping me prep for next week!
Don't forget to talk about linguini!!!
-------------------------------------------
Ivan Sergio Borgonovo [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Webmaster Gorilla Bookstore http://www.gorilla.it
Tel. +39 2 3311105/34530455 Fax. +39 2 34531591
Via Mac Mahon 9, Milano, Italy
-------------------------------------------
____________________________________________________________________
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Join The Web Consultants Association : Register on our web site Now
Web Consultants Web Site : http://just4u.com/webconsultants
If you lose the instructions All subscription/unsubscribing can be done
directly from our website for all our lists.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
