Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> On Tue, Feb 16, 1999 at 09:34:48AM -0800, Jack Killpatrick wrote:
> > Rich Kulawiec wrote:
> > > That's too bad. NT is not suitable for robust, secure, scalable,
> > > efficient, portable, standards-compliant Internet services.
> >
> > How do you define "portable"?
>
> "portable" means that the service (and therefore its underlying OS) will
> run on many different hardware platforms, preferably including SIMD
> and MIMD architectures. Unix has been successfully run on everything
> from Z-80 8-bit microprocessors to Cray X-MP supercomputers. NT runs
> on a handful of machines and is only supported on two. Unix has been
> available in multiprocessor implementations for 18 years, MIMD for 12.
> NT is still trying to get off the ground.
Thanks for clearing that up, I wasn't thinking of your use of the word
"portable" as applying to hardware (and therefore scaling). I was thinking
that you meant the software was portable. In other words, if you use perl,
it will run on other OSes.
> > Why do you say that NT doesn't allow you to
> > build a "standards-compliant" service?
>
> Because the widespread braindamage which pervades the OS and the
> supporting
> applications comes in numerous forms, one of which is failure to comply
> fully with numerous Internet standards (as articulated by RFC). And given
> that the source code to the OS and the applications is not available, it's
> not possible to go in and fix either to achieve compliance.
>
> This shouldn't be any surprise to anyone, for two reasons: first,
> Microsoft
> has a long history of deliberate noncompliance with Internet standards as
> part of their attempt to coerce the 'net to do it their way. And second,
> no Internet standard has ever originated from Microsoft: nearly all of the
> modern ones, like NNTP, HTML, HTTP, WAIS, VRML, IRC, NFS, SNMP,
> LDAP, MIME,
> and PGP etc. have been developed and refined on Unix. Given that they're
> consistently struggling to play catch-up, it's no wonder that they get
> some of it wrong even if they're trying to get it right.
OK. Here again, thanks for the clarification. I was only thinking about
HTML, HTTP and the browser standards. Isn't VRML really a browser plugin
issue? What are the problems with LDAP and MIME on NT? BTW, I just figgered
that services like NNTP, WAIS and SNMP would be run on a UNIX box, heh.
> Frankly, this entire discussion astonishes me. I find it difficult to
> believe that anyone who has been paying attention to technical information
> sources (e.g. mailing lists like inet-access, web sites like slashdot)
> would not be aware of what seems to me to be blindingly obvious:
> NT is dead.
Well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm not a member of inet-access
(guess it's time to look that one up). I *do* read slashdot occasionally
(not enough). I'm by no means an NT devotee, but it's been fine as a
workstation for my purposes. I just setup a Linux box at home, networked to
my NT, and I'm sure more and more things will gravitate to my Linux box as
time allows.
> Only the continued hype from Redmond and its supporters and loyalists
> is keeping it from falling over in a heap.
Yes, I'm sure it's safe to say that it's users are keeping it going, which
is pretty much the case with any business. From my latest experience
deciding whether to go NT or Linux for a inet server, it comes down to
scaling and reliablity. On that count, all fingers point to Linux as the
winner. However, I'm now testing MySQL vs MS SQL Server 7 and the gui for
SQL Server sure is a hella lot easier to use than the command line for
MySQL. As easier to use tools become available for my Linux box, it'll look
more attractive to me...and probably to all NT users.
But I wonder if, when more apps area available for Linux and "the masses"
start using it, if it'll become bloatware just like NT. Or maybe the zealous
people that helped build it will rebel against it? I'll bet there's already
a growing anti-Redhat group somewhere.
Jack
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