Graham, hey, I just use the darn thing. Sometimes (often) when I us it, I'm moved to words. So I speak. I like to be heard, so I speak here. When I'm moved to action, I do. Nobody asks me to do anything. That's because I'm nothing. - w
On Sep 1, 1:53 am, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sep 1, 2:33 pm, Iceberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Weheh, I have to say, you are a bad, bad guy. Because when I saw the > > title of your post, I was ready for a fight and rushed to see your > > post. But after reading, I lost the reason to make a heated-up > > dispute. :-) > > I would be regarded as an outsider here, but I am going to be blunt > here and say that you as users of web2py have to temper your > enthusiasm and tendency to attack when anyone says anything that might > seem the least bit critical, as the way it comes across, as seen by > outsiders like myself who monitor many web projects in the Python > community, is not particularly positive and reflects badly on the > web2py community. > > Various people in the wider community liken some of what is done by > Massimo and you as web2py users as advertising and having advertising > pushed down your throat is not something that is appreciated in the > Open Source community. Now I know that Massimo sees it as advocacy, > but that isn't how it is seen by others. Personally some of what I > have seen is more akin to evangelism or fanaticism to an extreme and > like I don't like having mormons knocking on my door trying to push > their religion, I don't look favourably at people trying to promote > things in that way. > > So, if you want to promote web2py, you really need to adjust your > thinking as about the best way of doing that. Trying to do it by > advertising, advocacy, evangelism or whatever you want to call it as > you are doing now, isn't necessarily working. > > One thing that would give much more credibility is if prominent people > in the web2py community, including Massimo, actually reached out to > other projects in the Python community, instead of just seeming to try > and take from them, and gave back to them in some way. And no I don't > mean going out and trying to convert them to your religion. Instead > build your profile through blogging about how to use web2py, but also > blog about other non web2py stuff which is useful to other people who > don't use web2py. Over time people will see you as a knowledgeable > person in their own right who just happens to use web2py. That > positive association can only be of benefit to web2py. You could also > consider contributing code to other Python projects and join in some > of the joint discussions about moving forward stuff like WSGI > component mechanisms. At the moment the web2py community is seen to a > degree as being elitist and looking down at the rest of the Python > community with a measure of arrogance. > > Instead of reaching out and helping, what you instead see at the > moment is attempts at self promotion on places like comments on > reddit. Such comments are usually of the form 'use web2py', but more > often than not have very little substance beyond that as to why web2py > might be a viable choice. In other words, the arguments in support of > we2bpy are quite shallow. And Massimo, you really need to stop calling > on web2py users to do comment spamming like that. I am not really > surprised if reddit had instigated a ban on web2py related posts > because of this, it just isn't something the Open Source community is > likely to appreciate. > > In summary, stop isolating yourself off and instead participate in a > meaningful way with the wider community rather than taking the stance > that you have the best thing since sliced bread and being openly > dismissive of other projects and/or people who may critique web2py. > You also need to shift from chanting that web2py is the best to > showing why it is good. This needs to include to a degree addressing > the perception that web2py is really a one man show. > > Personally, the way the web2py community comes across and the way > individuals carry themselves is why I have tended never to provide any > assistance in relation to mod_wsgi when using web2py. I believe > Massimo over time has identified that how the web2py community is seen > is a problem and has tried to take some positive steps to remedy that, > and why I have started contributing a little, but you still have a way > to go as some of the decisions really just seem to carry along in the > same footsteps. > > PS. I also do not appreciate getting rants in my personal inbox. Feel > free to discuss this here on the web2py list, but I don't want any > hate in my inbox as I know others have got when they have said things > viewed as less than positive about the web2py community. :-) > > Graham > > > > > PS: It doesn't need a native English speaker to understand your humor. > > I am from China too. :-) > > > Iceberg > > > On Sep1, 10:00am, weheh <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > I've been using web2py for around 6 months now and I thought I'd share > > > a bunch of reasons why I think web2py is a bad thing all around. > > > > I used to be an expert at all sorts of things in order to build my > > > websites. I developed a whole python infrastructure over a couple of > > > years that mostly enforced a MVC development structure. With it, I > > > could get a new website, like a photo gallery website, roughed-in in > > > under a week. I had a bunch of tricks up my sleeve, written in > > > javascript, css, cookies, AJAX, Apache, MySQL, html, XML, and other > > > arcane stuff. It was a steep learning curve and frustrating having to > > > learn all those different languages, but it gave me big mental muscles > > > and a big ego to go along with them. My websites were reasonbly > > > consistent looking and did a few nifty grpahics tricks to boot. They > > > stood up pretty well to lots of page hits. > > > > Now, I only use what comes in the web2py package and my sites look way > > > more consistent, do more graphics tricks, and use a ton less code. My > > > websites never break and I rarely check in on them to see if they're > > > working. They just work. I can develop the look and feel of the site > > > before writing the database and controller code. The photo-gallery > > > site that took a week to develop ... I can now do in an afternoon. > > > Another site that took me months to develop ... I'm on the way to > > > implementing it in a couple of weeks. I have so much extra time on my > > > hand that I find myself worrying about really dumb stuff, like > > > implementing rounded corners on my boxes or getting just the right > > > shade of eggshell blue in my background. I thought I still had a valid > > > complaint that the web2py doc was thin and incomplete, but now that > > > Massimo has come out with the fantastic rev 2.0 of the doc, even that > > > gripe has been taken away from me. > > > > Now my mental muscles are going flabby and my ego has been deflated. > > > Practically any shmoe can now make an excellent dynamic website with > > > web2py. Web2py is a bad, bad thing.- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. 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