@weheh: LOL, good post! On Sep 1, 1:53 am, Graham Dumpleton <[email protected]> wrote: > On Sep 1, 2:33 pm, Iceberg <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Weheh, I have to say, you are a bad, bad guy. Because when I saw the > > title of your post, I was ready for a fight and rushed to see your > > post. But after reading, I lost the reason to make a heated-up > > dispute. :-)
Hi Graham, first let me thank you for all your very knowledgable posts about WSGI and Apache configuration. > I would be regarded as an outsider here, but I am going to be blunt > here and say that you as users of web2py have to temper your > enthusiasm and tendency to attack when anyone says anything that might > seem the least bit critical, as the way it comes across, as seen by > outsiders like myself who monitor many web projects in the Python > community, is not particularly positive and reflects badly on the > web2py community. IMHO nobody is regarded as an outsider around here; even people who don't try hard enough to search older posts before asking questions get treated nicely. web2py users jump in defense of outside attacks on the framework, not the other way around. We have many posts openly discussing what others think about web2py and to the best of my knowledge they are reviewed and answered in a constructive and polite way. > Various people in the wider community liken some of what is done by > Massimo and you as web2py users as advertising and having advertising > pushed down your throat is not something that is appreciated in the > Open Source community. Now I know that Massimo sees it as advocacy, > but that isn't how it is seen by others. Personally some of what I > have seen is more akin to evangelism or fanaticism to an extreme and > like I don't like having mormons knocking on my door trying to push > their religion, I don't look favourably at people trying to promote > things in that way. web2py being the newcomer needs to let the world know it exists. There is nothing wrong with being vocal about what you like or believe to be a better/easier way of getting things done. To liken that to door-to-door evangelism is uncalled for, we could only dream of such level of commitment but then it would be more a nightmare than a dream. > So, if you want to promote web2py, you really need to adjust your > thinking as about the best way of doing that. Trying to do it by > advertising, advocacy, evangelism or whatever you want to call it as > you are doing now, isn't necessarily working. > > One thing that would give much more credibility is if prominent people > in the web2py community, including Massimo, actually reached out to > other projects in the Python community, instead of just seeming to try > and take from them, and gave back to them in some way. Taking ideas and improving them, making things easier even for the not so skilled, working on your project and releasing it as open source, helping people on this list, they all qualify as "giving back to the community" in my book. > And no I don't > mean going out and trying to convert them to your religion. Instead > build your profile through blogging about how to use web2py, but also > blog about other non web2py stuff which is useful to other people who > don't use web2py. Over time people will see you as a knowledgeable > person in their own right who just happens to use web2py. That > positive association can only be of benefit to web2py. You could also > consider contributing code to other Python projects and join in some > of the joint discussions about moving forward stuff like WSGI > component mechanisms. At the moment the web2py community is seen to a > degree as being elitist and looking down at the rest of the Python > community with a measure of arrogance. Elitist? arrogant? I strongly disagree. When did that happen?. As a contributor I tend to participate in what I understand (or think I do) and I do so freely and by my own choosing. > Instead of reaching out and helping, what you instead see at the > moment is attempts at self promotion on places like comments on > reddit. Such comments are usually of the form 'use web2py', but more > often than not have very little substance beyond that as to why web2py > might be a viable choice. In other words, the arguments in support of > we2bpy are quite shallow. And Massimo, you really need to stop calling > on web2py users to do comment spamming like that. I am not really > surprised if reddit had instigated a ban on web2py related posts > because of this, it just isn't something the Open Source community is > likely to appreciate. Massimo calls on people to spread the word about web2py, it is only natural if you want to grow and stay around. Concentrating the efforts on a particular venue like reddit and with short meat-less comments is not the way to go, I concur. > In summary, stop isolating yourself off and instead participate in a > meaningful way with the wider community rather than taking the stance > that you have the best thing since sliced bread and being openly > dismissive of other projects and/or people who may critique web2py. > You also need to shift from chanting that web2py is the best to > showing why it is good. This needs to include to a degree addressing > the perception that web2py is really a one man show. In many regards it is mostly a one man show, another point for growing the community. > Personally, the way the web2py community comes across and the way > individuals carry themselves is why I have tended never to provide any > assistance in relation to mod_wsgi when using web2py. I believe > Massimo over time has identified that how the web2py community is seen > is a problem and has tried to take some positive steps to remedy that, > and why I have started contributing a little, but you still have a way > to go as some of the decisions really just seem to carry along in the > same footsteps. I can only hope your perception about web2py and its community can change. It, as any other project, needs all the help from skilled people it can get. > PS. I also do not appreciate getting rants in my personal inbox. Feel > free to discuss this here on the web2py list, but I don't want any > hate in my inbox as I know others have got when they have said things > viewed as less than positive about the web2py community. :-) I agree 100%, keep the comments on this list. Denes. > Graham --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "web2py-users" group. 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