On Aug 8, 2009, at 11:58 PM, Harry Underwood wrote:
Thanks very much for the explanations, everyone. Sorry about the
long chain of questions, but I wanted to form a FAQ-type basis for
future questions regarding the difference between what Apple and
WebKit are doing with SVG+CSS and what Google and Khronos Group are
doing with O3D vs. WebGL,
Even that way of framing it sounds potentially inaccurate. Some
corrections:
- Neither Apple nor WebKit are specifically trying to do something
with SVG+CSS. We do support SVG, and we have some CSS extensions, but
we're not especially pushing this combination.
- We're hoping others adopt our 3D CSS transforms, just as our 2D CSS
transforms and CSS transitions have gotten interest from Mozilla and
others.
- Apple, along with Google, Mozilla, Khronos Group and others, is
actively supporting WebGL.
- O3D is, at least for now, a Google-only technology.
- None of these technologies serve quite the same purpose.
at least because a number (a minority, most likely) of people are
highly interested in the post-VRML "3D Web" nowadays.
There's definitely a lot of people interested in 3D. It would be good
to collect the information about this.
- Maciej
Thanks,
Harry
On Sun, Aug 9, 2009 at 2:43 AM, Adam Barth <aba...@webkit.org> wrote:
Resending from the proper address even though Maciej already answered
your question.
Adam
---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Adam Barth <aba...@eecs.berkeley.edu>
Date: Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:39 PM
Subject: Re: [webkit-dev] WebKit and Khronos Group
To: Harry Underwood <raynenami...@gmail.com>
Cc: Jeremy Orlow <jor...@chromium.org>, webkit-dev@lists.webkit.org
On Sat, Aug 8, 2009 at 11:14 PM, Harry Underwood<raynenami...@gmail.com
> wrote:
> So what you're also saying is that the combination of CSS 3D
Transforms in
> Animations with SVG (resulting, I'm assuming, in SVG-transformed
animation
> through CSS styling) does not translate or correlate to what
either WebGL or
> O3D are meant to do, even though O3D and SVG are both retained
mode APIs?
Yes. For example, O3D lets you specify a light source and a bump map
for objects whereas this API would not. Also O3D gives you access to
hardware accelerated pixel shaders.
> And you're also saying that it isn't the intention of WebKit's
> implementation (or Apple's Working Draft) of SVG Transforms (as
> per http://www.w3.org/TR/SVG-Transforms/ ) to allow for the
construction and
> styling of full scenes and models like those in O3D?
I can't speak for Apple, but that would be quite surprising. If
you're interested in this topic, you might be interested in reading
about Cg and the O3D shading language:
http://developer.nvidia.com/page/cg_main.html
http://code.google.com/apis/o3d/docs/shadinglanguage.html
> The draft has a
> combination of CSS transitions, CSS Animations and CSS 3D to plug
into SVG,
> so it would seem like any composition using SVG Transforms could
accomplish
> mostly with CSS what O3D accomplishes with JavaScript (unless I'm
not
> reading it correctly).
There's a lot more to 3D rendering than transitions, animations, and
transforms. In particular, 3D is largely about framing your drawing
in a way that your graphics hardware can be blazingly fast. That's
way most modern 3D drawing APIs use something akin to glDrawElements:
http://code.google.com/apis/o3d/docs/reference/classo3d_1_1_draw_element.html
This API is usually the fastest possible way to send geometry
information from main memory to the GPU.
Adam
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