Le 09-12-06 à 13:56, Kieran Kelleher a écrit :
On Dec 6, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Tim Worman wrote:
Kieran et al:
Good stuff and we probably do need lower the barriers to begin
development. This conversation could probably stand to be as long
as the MySQL thread. :-)
I think some of the sources regarding how to get started have
conflicting information. Did you start out at wocommunity.org and
follow the directions there? It looks to me like the getting
started links there would still work (for 3.4 dev anyway). I wonder
a couple things -
1. is it in any way possible that Apple could point to a site like
wocommunity.org - simply for the tools. One link. :-) It's just one
link. It seems to me that any newbie is gonna land at Apple before
anything else.
Doubtful - bureaucracy.
When you do a search on "webobjects" on Google, wocommunity.org is the
third result. And according
2. could the community somehow agree on a single site to host
Eclipse/WOLips installers and instructions for all platforms? My
feeling is the installers and guides are scattered across different
sites and threads from listserves. If there was one page that had
downloads - OS X, CentOS, FreeBSD, Windows, etc. Since the tools
are hosted at ObjectStyle, maybe that's where it should be. If I
google 'webobjects development' the 3rd link is:
http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Scratch+Setup+of+WebObjects+Development+on+a+Mac
Darn. I wrote that and did not even see it this time around!
Really wiki.objectstyle.org is *the* best single centreal site
because we *all* have access to it and we can *all* update it. It
has the best chance of being maintained. The nature of the community
support beast is that stuff will be scattered around the place, but
IIRC, we all kinda agreed that the wiki was to be the central
"community knowledge" store and wocommunity.org was the "ambassador
for WO" ....... If pascal wants, he could include the entire wiki
within a page frame on wocommunity.org for newbie lack of immediate
confusion perhaps. For wocommunity.org changes, we must direct that
to Pascal.
One advantage for the wiki is that everyone can update it, but it also
a big problem. Spammers can update it, someone can delete the content,
etc. And as for updating the wocommunity.org, I have no problem with
having helpers, sadly so far only David LeBer is helping me on that.
That's not a bad place to land - but it is completely different
from where wocommunity.org points. And the info is kinda stale. My
only thought about adding another getting started page is that
maybe we should make a concerted effort also to remove anything old
first. Maybe with a decently ranked page already returned from a
google search, maybe we should simply re-work that page?
Yeah, or even redirect it. Now I feel silly that I started a "Quick
Start Guide", albeit that that Scratch Setup was not intended for
Newbies. Yes, you are right though. This page is ranked (changing
the content may change the ranking though?), so if anything we can
add Introduction section with crosslinks to others.
And, we should not be shy about changing, and deleting irrelevant
content. It is a wiki, we can always revert to a version.
Kieran
Tim Worman
UCLA GSE&IS
On Dec 6, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote:
I was setting up a new SL dev environment, and just to see what
the initial installation and setup procedure would be like for a
complete newbie on SL, I looked on the wiki for instructions for
the simplest possible path to new installation on a virgin Snow
Leopard.
It seems that really, a newbie would probably be confused and
would probably struggle. :-(
After installing WebObjects 5.4.3 using Apple's dmg installer and
then installing the "All In One" Eclipse/WOLips installer from
Jeremy's .mac page (since the sisu download was slow as molasses
with an est time of 1 day+!), I then hit a roadblock, getting an
error when launching Eclipse after running Jeremy's installer.
" An Error has occurred"
" See the log file ~/.eclipse/...../blahblah.log"
That error log file is full of "missing required bundle" messages.
Anyway, just FYI, I don't have time for troubleshooting this
now .... I am doing my usual 3.4.2 download and install/setup the
manual way.
Since Jeremy is not working in WO anymore and this is AIO (All In
One) installer is clearly broken for install on a virgin OS X Snow
Leopard box, we might want to just discontinue the all-in-one
installer and just go write a concise "WebObjects Developer Quick
Start Guide" for newbies .......so I started a wiki page on this
and will work on completing it as I get time. Any thoughts on
that? Should I wipe all references on the wiki to the AIO?
If we are ever going to get new devs to come to WebObjects, we
need to have a working quick start. Any dev worth his salt should
be comfortable on the command line, so maybe a bash install script
that downloads and installs various bits and configures everything
might be the better route. Any opinions on that?
BTW, I went to use the WOInstaller.jar initially and thinking that
a newbie would want standard install paths, I set the
WOInstaller.jar target as "/", but got an error saying System
directory already exists. Should the WOInstaller.jar's CPIO class
be changed to just overwrite existing files? Does that "overlay"
directory paths (aka merge eith existing files if named
differently, or does it realyl "replace" existing directories
(ie., wiping them out)?
Anyway, this is just some meandering thoughts / discussion before
I leave off the "How would a newbie WO dev fare on getting
started" for now and go do some work.
Regards, Kieran
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