On Dec 6, 2009, at 11:02 AM, Pascal Robert wrote: > > Le 09-12-06 à 13:56, Kieran Kelleher a écrit : > >> >> On Dec 6, 2009, at 1:40 PM, Tim Worman wrote: >> >>> Kieran et al: >>> >>> Good stuff and we probably do need lower the barriers to begin development. >>> This conversation could probably stand to be as long as the MySQL thread. >>> :-) >>> >>> I think some of the sources regarding how to get started have conflicting >>> information. Did you start out at wocommunity.org and follow the directions >>> there? It looks to me like the getting started links there would still work >>> (for 3.4 dev anyway). I wonder a couple things - >>> >>> 1. is it in any way possible that Apple could point to a site like >>> wocommunity.org - simply for the tools. One link. :-) It's just one link. >>> It seems to me that any newbie is gonna land at Apple before anything else. >> >> Doubtful - bureaucracy. > > When you do a search on "webobjects" on Google, wocommunity.org is the third > result. And according
Very true. My search was for 'webobjects development.' For that search, wocommunity.org didn't land on the first page. >>> 2. could the community somehow agree on a single site to host >>> Eclipse/WOLips installers and instructions for all platforms? My feeling is >>> the installers and guides are scattered across different sites and threads >>> from listserves. If there was one page that had downloads - OS X, CentOS, >>> FreeBSD, Windows, etc. Since the tools are hosted at ObjectStyle, maybe >>> that's where it should be. If I google 'webobjects development' the 3rd >>> link is: >>> >>> http://wiki.objectstyle.org/confluence/display/WOL/Scratch+Setup+of+WebObjects+Development+on+a+Mac >> >> Darn. I wrote that and did not even see it this time around! >> >> Really wiki.objectstyle.org is *the* best single centreal site because we >> *all* have access to it and we can *all* update it. It has the best chance >> of being maintained. The nature of the community support beast is that stuff >> will be scattered around the place, but IIRC, we all kinda agreed that the >> wiki was to be the central "community knowledge" store and wocommunity.org >> was the "ambassador for WO" ....... If pascal wants, he could include the >> entire wiki within a page frame on wocommunity.org for newbie lack of >> immediate confusion perhaps. For wocommunity.org changes, we must direct >> that to Pascal. > > One advantage for the wiki is that everyone can update it, but it also a big > problem. Spammers can update it, someone can delete the content, etc. And as > for updating the wocommunity.org, I have no problem with having helpers, > sadly so far only David LeBer is helping me on that. I don't know how often there's really a problem with spammers, etc. I will say that I agree with both sides - that it is easy for the community to update the wiki but I do think there is value in having a professional looking site be a "landing point" for these efforts. But that does take development effort. >>> That's not a bad place to land - but it is completely different from where >>> wocommunity.org points. And the info is kinda stale. My only thought about >>> adding another getting started page is that maybe we should make a >>> concerted effort also to remove anything old first. Maybe with a decently >>> ranked page already returned from a google search, maybe we should simply >>> re-work that page? >> >> Yeah, or even redirect it. Now I feel silly that I started a "Quick Start >> Guide", albeit that that Scratch Setup was not intended for Newbies. Yes, >> you are right though. This page is ranked (changing the content may change >> the ranking though?), so if anything we can add Introduction section with >> crosslinks to others. >> >> And, we should not be shy about changing, and deleting irrelevant content. >> It is a wiki, we can always revert to a version. >> >> Kieran >> >> >>> >>> >>> Tim Worman >>> UCLA GSE&IS >>> >>> >>> >>> On Dec 6, 2009, at 9:36 AM, Kieran Kelleher wrote: >>> >>>> I was setting up a new SL dev environment, and just to see what the >>>> initial installation and setup procedure would be like for a complete >>>> newbie on SL, I looked on the wiki for instructions for the simplest >>>> possible path to new installation on a virgin Snow Leopard. >>>> >>>> It seems that really, a newbie would probably be confused and would >>>> probably struggle. :-( >>>> >>>> >>>> After installing WebObjects 5.4.3 using Apple's dmg installer and then >>>> installing the "All In One" Eclipse/WOLips installer from Jeremy's .mac >>>> page (since the sisu download was slow as molasses with an est time of 1 >>>> day+!), I then hit a roadblock, getting an error when launching Eclipse >>>> after running Jeremy's installer. >>>> " An Error has occurred" >>>> " See the log file ~/.eclipse/...../blahblah.log" >>>> >>>> That error log file is full of "missing required bundle" messages. >>>> >>>> Anyway, just FYI, I don't have time for troubleshooting this now .... I am >>>> doing my usual 3.4.2 download and install/setup the manual way. >>>> >>>> Since Jeremy is not working in WO anymore and this is AIO (All In One) >>>> installer is clearly broken for install on a virgin OS X Snow Leopard box, >>>> we might want to just discontinue the all-in-one installer and just go >>>> write a concise "WebObjects Developer Quick Start Guide" for newbies >>>> .......so I started a wiki page on this and will work on completing it as >>>> I get time. Any thoughts on that? Should I wipe all references on the wiki >>>> to the AIO? >>>> >>>> If we are ever going to get new devs to come to WebObjects, we need to >>>> have a working quick start. Any dev worth his salt should be comfortable >>>> on the command line, so maybe a bash install script that downloads and >>>> installs various bits and configures everything might be the better route. >>>> Any opinions on that? >>>> >>>> BTW, I went to use the WOInstaller.jar initially and thinking that a >>>> newbie would want standard install paths, I set the WOInstaller.jar target >>>> as "/", but got an error saying System directory already exists. Should >>>> the WOInstaller.jar's CPIO class be changed to just overwrite existing >>>> files? Does that "overlay" directory paths (aka merge eith existing files >>>> if named differently, or does it realyl "replace" existing directories >>>> (ie., wiping them out)? >>>> >>>> Anyway, this is just some meandering thoughts / discussion before I leave >>>> off the "How would a newbie WO dev fare on getting started" for now and go >>>> do some work. >>>> >>>> Regards, Kieran >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >>>> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >>>> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >>>> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40thetimmy.com >>>> >>>> This email sent to [email protected] >>> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >> >> This email sent to [email protected] > _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list ([email protected]) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: http://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to [email protected]
