appleseed discussions may use WO as well? Tim UCLA GSE&IS
On Mar 5, 2014, at 1:51 PM, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> wrote: > From what I learned, the iTunes group is still using WO, but the other groups > can use whatever they want. > > ----- Mail original ----- > De: "Gino Pacitti" <ginok...@mac.com> > À: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com > Envoyé: Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 16:45:47 > Objet: Re: WebObjects-Projects? > > So if these guys are poached by Apple - what technology are they using there? > Have they left WO completely? > > > On 5 Mar 2014, at 21:23, Pascal Robert <prob...@macti.ca> wrote: > >> It's not only Mike who was poached by Apple. Kieran, Miguel Arroz, Mark >> Ritchie, Q, Guido, the list is quite long. >> >> 75% of the community wants to keep using WO, but not much people are doing >> anything to improve things. It will be my last WOWODC, I'm tired to trying >> to improve the conference while having less and less people coming to the >> conference? It's time that I can care of my health and have some fun instead >> of being full of stress. >> >> ----- Mail original ----- >> De: "Ramsey Gurley" <rgur...@smarthealth.com> >> À: "Jürgen Simon" <si...@webtecc.com> >> Cc: webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com >> Envoyé: Mercredi 5 Mars 2014 15:12:49 >> Objet: Re: WebObjects-Projects? >> >> >> On Mar 5, 2014, at 4:37 AM, Jürgen Simon <si...@webtecc.com> wrote: >> >>> Hello, >>> >>> this is not a technical inquiry, more a temperature check on the business >>> side of WebObjects. It is my impression that at least in Germany, after the >>> 2008/2009 crisis the market for WebObjects-projects has really been down a >>> lot. I have been looking hi and lo for opportunities to work with WO again, >>> but apart from self-initiated projects there was nothing going on. >>> >>> Is this perception limited to Germany or is it even just me? Are there any >>> project marketplaces for WO that I am not aware of? How much of a future >>> would you guys think WO really has? >>> >>> Kind Regards, >>> Jürgen >> >> >> Having worked with WO for a while now, I think it’s safe for me to say WO >> has a limited future. >> >> For one, Apple did not open source it when they left it for dead in >> 2008/2009. The “Apple only hardware” license restriction is pretty lame too. >> I seems they did this hoping to kill it. It appears they are looking at >> other solutions besides WO for their own usage. The last time I saw an >> @apple.com address break radio silence, it was on the Cayenne list. It seems >> pretty tragic, but that’s what it looks like from the outside. >> >> Two, Anjo left Wonder. Mike was poached by Apple and has been MIA since. >> Without Anjo to keep people in line, I’ve noticed the quality of >> contributions have declined. Without Mike’s tireless contributions, I’ve >> noticed most commits are not in the form of great useful new frameworks, but >> refactoring of old frameworks. Refactoring combined with loose quality >> control has made Wonder something that went from “I can’t wait to update my >> repo” to “I’m scared if I update my repo, stuff is going to break… again.” >> >> Third, the type of applications WO excels at are no longer in demand. If you >> make an app that requires someone to poke in 42 text fields on their >> smartphone, you are doing it wrong. But that’s exactly the sort of app that >> WO is purpose built to handle. Dynamic URLs are universally hated by the >> marketing department. "Why can’t we just have domain.com/page?? WO URLs are >> horrible for SEO!!” WO can give you a table of data sorted and nested >> inside another table of data which is also sorted and nested as deep as you >> want to go. Automatically. And it will keep track of all that, but then... >> who’s going to read a table that big on a 5” screen? The design department >> wants minimal info on the page, please. Just the facts ma’am. Those sort of >> desktop apps have already been built. They’re now in maintenance mode. No >> one is going to rewrite them in WO any sooner that someone is going to >> rewrite all the WO apps in something else. >> >> Fourth, the tooling is showing bit rot. Q is the only person left who really >> has a handle on how WOLips works. My copy of rule modeler is buggy as hell >> and crashes 50% of the time I try to launch or save something under >> Mavericks. Installing WO for dev or deployment requires a PhD in WebObjects. >> Monitor slowly becomes less and less responsive until you’re forced to >> reboot it. Even when it works, it doesn’t really monitor everything I need >> to know. Memory, cpu, disk space? Oh, go get Nagios and add to your >> administration nightmare. >> >> Finally, there’s the learning cliff involved with WO. WO developers are as >> rare as unicorns. Learning WO in depth takes months/years to do, even for an >> experienced Java developer. In a lot of cases, the WO app that is out there >> isn’t in prime condition and requires lots of maintenance. It was probably >> built on an existing legacy database with a schema that goes against the WO >> way. That results a sub-optimal development experience with WO. Especially >> for the uninitiated. Nobody is going to learn it on the job and think “Wow, >> this is so great! I love WebObjects!!" >> >> This is not to say WO is bad. WO is great for what it does. If you have a >> mac, you know WO already, you don’t mind the tools are a little creaky, you >> have your own wonder fork, you are okay with writing whatever frameworks you >> need, you are the dba, and it works for you.. knock yourself out. I don’t >> expect to see a lot of new faces around though. >> >> >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca >> >> This email sent to prob...@macti.ca >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. >> Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) >> Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: >> https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/ginokris%40me.com >> >> This email sent to ginok...@me.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/probert%40macti.ca > > This email sent to prob...@macti.ca > > _______________________________________________ > Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. > Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) > Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: > https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/lists%40thetimmy.com > > This email sent to li...@thetimmy.com _______________________________________________ Do not post admin requests to the list. They will be ignored. Webobjects-dev mailing list (Webobjects-dev@lists.apple.com) Help/Unsubscribe/Update your Subscription: https://lists.apple.com/mailman/options/webobjects-dev/archive%40mail-archive.com This email sent to arch...@mail-archive.com
