On 01/26/2012 03:00 AM, David White wrote:
On Wed, Jan 25, 2012 at 7:50 PM, Bruno Wolff III <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote:
It's not just finances it's also the RPG element. It's fun to be
able to
use the units you have already been using and have trained. Not being
able to use them for cost reasons (which is already there to some
extent
because of maintenance costs) is going to make the game less fun
to many
people.
Yes, absolutely! This also. You need leveling up to be *good*. To give
you an advantage. Otherwise nobody's going to want to do it.
I'd hate to play Wesnoth and build a huge awesome army of units ...
and then realize that my huge army of powerful guys doesn't actually
help me win the next scenario.
Are there problems with it? Sure, but I considered the trade-offs
worth it when I designed Wesnoth. I haven't heard any solution which
strictly improves the situation, all solutions are trading one
person's RPGish tastes for another person's fair-strategy-game tastes.
David
Okay, let's see how the current system works out in the practise.
I start a campaign at a difficult level that is challenging me.
The recruits of the first scenario are made out of sane decisions how to
win the scenario.
This is working well, if the player has understood the game mechanics to
a certain degree
(which is the case for me).
The following scenarios get harder and my gold is most likely in a
region where I can't go on with making sane
recall/recruit decisions any longer.
Instead of ending up with an army that suits the scenario most I end up
with an army that consists of the highest units
in my recall list for the reasons already discussed.
The more variety the campaign offers (and a well made one should) the
worse is the difference between what I need and
what I must go with.
At a certain point of the campaign the situation gets even worse.
All the units in my recall list have reached their maximum level.
Now the gameplay starts to become very ugly.
In order to not waste all the experience my units could gather during a
scenario I need to recall some first level units.
It's always hard to decide if I can afford another level 3+ veteran
being replaced with a new recruit.
Those few new recruits are fragile since the enemy is facing me with
high level units and they are rare.
Thus instead of having the option to sacrifice them when the situation
would otherwise lead to the loss of my veterans
they must be protected at all costs.
Nevertheless how successful the protection for them works, it's hard to
have them at the right place to go in for the kills.
So my moves aren't going to be the best ones tactic wise but optimised
to give the first level units the opportunity to finish the enemy off.
I really hate such situations. It feels wrong to retread the maxed out
units because of experience management if the best action (tactical wise)
to win the scenario would be to give the veteran the kill.
If done consequently the time limit of the scenario is reached or I end
up with too few gold which leads to the fact that most
of the experience still ends up with the veterans.
A few scenarios later the veterans have gained some AMLA and the power
they over for the 20 gold recall cost gets even higher.
The problem gets worse, again.
At this point the current implementation of the RPG element is no more
fun at all.
It forces me to go with an suboptimal army constellation that fitted the
first few scenarios,
the experience is wasted mostly and I always have problems to protect
all the units even if I can afford some new recruits.
The last point leads to saveloading, another thing that reduces my fun
with the game even more for several reasons.
It also bothers me that I nearly never can get enough units of types
that join my recruit list at a late time in the campaign
to their maximum level at all advancement possibilities.
Please don't get me wrong, I am all for RPG elements, would even
emphasise them more.
I just can't see why the current gameplay would be very RPGish.
------
Let's assume we go with recall costs being about 80% of the recruit costs.
Still the higher level units offer more combat value per gold so it's
worth recalling them.
On the other hand does recruiting level one units don't penalise me that
much.
I end up with an army fitting the scenario while still being able to
recruit units that can either be sacrificed or leveled up.
Sure, there would be less maximum level units on the board which I
consider an advantage gameplay wise.
Collecting a recall list with units suiting more situations is more
likely and doesn't make leveling units obsolete.
In fact it would lead to a more distributed recall list with more or all
types of the possible advancements present.
The RPG factor of the game would be the possibility to choose between
all kinds of units that were managed to level up (even if not at maximum
level)
instead of being forced to go with the team I started with.
If you prefer the fixed team approach then a campaign that is meant to
challenge such a combination is the best way to go,
not our current set of campaigns which are meant to offer variety.
Fabian
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